iMMERSN

immersn is on holidays!!

2010-07-17T15:57:00.000-07:00

hey fellow wanderers!

just a quick note to let you know that immersn has shut down for the summer but will be back at it in the fall...better than ever!

stay tuned

stay connected

stay real.

happy summer!

thanks...and see ya

2010-01-05T06:33:00.000-08:00

there are no words to describe what this community has meant to me.

it is a difficult thing to sit back and review what something like immersn has meant and then write those thoughts down in a concise way...logic is almost always easier to communicate than emotion. that's why vulcans are so smart.

anyhoo, from the first time we gathered in the hall in sept of 2007 until this final time in the same hall in 2010 (yikes!) this group has been on a journey of God-discovery.

we never knew what this thing was going to look like and God made it something more than i ever could have hoped when we sat down to plan out immersion (it started with the "proper" spelling...we dropped the 'io' at the end for the sake of the website) years ago. this thing started as a 'cool' service for people who wanted something more than what they got at an average sunday morning. it turned into a faith community that embraced God, each other, and the true struggle that should define a life of faith.

no topic taboo, no person unwelcome, no event un-holy. i think we really took some monumental steps toward redefining what 'church' means in the 21st century. for that, and so much more, i am thankful for this community.

also, i am thankful for all the laughs, deep discussions, food, art, love, food, learning, food and spiritual growth i have enjoyed over the past couple of years.

i have always believed that faith has no formula (mostly because i hate math) and i think the same can be said of relationships. therefore, besides making me inherently distrustful of all those '7 steps to a holier you' books it also makes experiences like this incredibly powerful for me. i don't understand how and why we all gathered each week, i don't understand why immersn means so much to each of us. i don't understand how each and every one of you possess such unique perspectives and yet, somehow, each remain faithful to the LORD. i don't understand it, but i love it.

and i love this community and all the new people i have come to know because of it. because of immersn i have many new friends, i am aware of children struggling against evil in uganda, i have seen our people lay down their lives (metaphorically) for others, i am aware of how much my life impacts other lives and our planet, i am aware that people in the pews really struggle with the faith...even if they are too polite to mention it on a sunday morning. because of you, i feel more aware.

so, to conclude. i began by stating that there are no words to describe what immersn has meant to me because of one simple truth: through you i have seen GOD.

what else is there to say?

I LOVE YOU ALL.

THANK-YOU.

AMEN.

remember AND realize

2009-11-09T11:20:00.000-08:00

sometimes we think that all the fighting we are called to remember on nov. 11th took place in the past.

that is not the case. we have sons and daughters fighting for lofty goals all over the globe right now.

there are the sons and daughters of other mothers and fathers being stolen from their families to be used in not-so-lofty wars right now.

please, please, please join us wednesday night, nov 11 at 7pm as we remember and realize the horror that is war. kids are still fighting. each generation seems doomed to learn these lessons over again.

invisible children will be hosting an evening with us as they screen their new film: together we are free

the screening will be free, the music will be reflective, the merchandise will advertise this cause and give money to people who really need it. come and partake

remember those who have given so much
realize that there are those who are still being forced to give.
let us remember the hope that comes to us from ancient days:

He will judge between the nations and will settle disputes for many peoples. They will beat their swords into plowshares and their spears into pruning hooks. Nation will not take up sword against nation, nor will they train for war anymore.
~Isaiah 2:4~

peace.

this is just one video among many on youtube...we hope you can spend some time and watch a bunch. we hope you can join us wednesday and watch one more. think of the beauty as thousands of american teens volunteered to sleep in parks out of love to show solidarity to the african children that are forced to do the same out of fear.

dead sea scrolls lecture...words that changed the world

2009-11-02T08:15:00.000-08:00

Dr. Stan Porter will be leading immersn this week and you do NOT want to miss this.

the ancient words present in the dead sea scrolls (on display at the ROM) helped form the world in which we live. however, our distance from the world in which they were written sometimes constricts our ability to understand these words and discern their impact.

therefore, we have invited world-renowned linguist Dr. Porter to come in and explore and explain these documents in a way that most people will never get to see. this will be a powerful night with information that only a small fraction of a percent of the world's population will ever have access to and we think that is pretty awesome.

it is a FREE evening so come on out and join us as we seek to better understand these words that changed the world.

eJesus, iJesus, oJesus...technology and worship

2009-11-02T08:04:00.000-08:00

can Jesus be pixelated?
how should the church use the technology of computers, sound and video to further the kingdom of GOD?
this week several of us from the immersn community gathered in mississauga for a conference called: the intersection of worship and technology
it was filled with people who worship GOD with the tools of our day...but the point that united all the presentations was this: GOD is bigger than technology and all these programs, mics, videos, music, computers etc. are nothing without the deeper message.
THAT inspired us as we, the immersn-ites, led worship at the beginning and end of the day.
if GOD is bigger than technology how do we use our tech effectively?
we were warned several times that what we can do with technology can overpower what we should do with it. in other words, we get so caught up in showing off all the bells and whistles that we forget to include GOD in our services.
we have found that while immersn has always been tech-ish...some of our most profound services have been our 'lo-tech' nights.
in fact, the wednesday before the conference we gathered around a candle in the bronte cemetery and read from a service that dates back to the first century (from the didache) and then we talked while the candle flickered and the waves crashed against the shore behind us.
in that moment no computers were needed (nor were they wanted) because we had what was most important: GOD and community.
let us never forget that these advancements are nothing more than tools to help us worship GOD and understand ourselves and our faith better. as soon as they stop being able to do that they move from worshipful to anti-worship and should-must- be cast aside.
with that in mind, let us continue to find videos, songs, images...etc. that help us best communicate the gospel to a world that desperately needs the message of faith.
we are thankful to have been part of an important moment in the church's history as people gathered together to see how this church can impact the culture in ways that matter both to the people in our pews and the ones beyond.
amen...or should that be e-men?

who are you & who are you not?

2009-10-05T08:29:00.000-07:00

we gathered
dave led
we wrote
GOD moved.

last wednesday night we gathered together as dave fath (dave@immersn.com) led us on a psiritual journey. we watched a video that talked about the labels that we give to ourselves and how those labels are not always flattering.

but this was more than a self-help night. it was a self-realization night.

dave had us take time and write stuff about ourselves on cardboard. below is a clip from a church that did something similar. however, ours differed in that we also took time with each other to speak about our dissapointments and pain and the growing sense that we are bigger than we give ourselves permission to be.

we are growing to understand that often (not always but often) our idea of GOD as pushing us 'out of our comfort zones' is less GOD pushing us forward and more of GOD stopping us from shrinking back. the 'push' we feel is the divine hand encouraging us and preventing us from falling away from not just from GOD, but from GOD's picture of us...that picture is so much more grand than anything we ever thought we could be so it looks alien to us...and so we shrink from it, we shrink from ourselves. but GOD keeps showing us the image of us, not the image from a mirror, but an image from HIS imagination.

forgive us, LORD, for thinking so little of ourselves
forgive us, LORD, for thinking so little of YOUR creation.

enjoy the clip...some of it is meh, some of it is brilliant, some of it will break your heart.

peace. you are loved

psalm 8

2009-09-28T11:56:00.000-07:00

the pslamist asked the question of GOD: "Who are we that you spend time thinking about us?" and that is, indeed, a troubling and poignant question. one that deserves to be looked at and explored.

the following video was used for our kick-off night on wed. sept. 16th and the beginning of our series "who are you?" which is exploring a kind of "theological anthropology" seeing ourselves less like other humans see us [including ourselves] and more like the way GOD sees us.

our second week featured steph sharing some profound and moving stories about her time in zambia to a packed house of people. then the lights went off and we found ourselves experiencing a more 'natural' evening service where we could see very little other than the sounds of the noises on the street and see little beyond the flickering glow of candlelights.

both these nights [and the next two to come] have been about sharing our faith and community with each other as we attempt to examine, really examine, what it means to be, well, us. who are we? who am i? who are you? the answers to such questions will influence the course of our lives.

hope to see you this week...keep the conversations coming!

here is the video titled 'psalm 8'

paint your faith

2009-09-04T11:50:00.000-07:00

immersn likes to support the arts, worship & good ideas

so, when all three happen at the same time we get positively giggly!

without any further adieu:

What is paint your faith?
Four acclaimed aerosol artists have been brought together to collectively express their interpretation of faith. This will take place on a 30' x 60' exterior wall donated by Metropolitan United Church, located in one of downtown Toronto's most culturally diverse neighbourhoods. The mural will be unveiled to the public and the media on September 19th after two weeks of work by the team of artists. During the event, explore and express what faith means to you on one of the many canvases that will be available. Whether it be a circle, a doodle or a complex drawing, seize the opportunity to share your spirituality and creativity with others. And if that isn't enough, you'll also be able to enjoy some BBQ and music throughout the afternoon.

for more info...just move your wee finger to the mouse and click here.

worship honestly
create
expand the kingdom

GOD is not a white man

2009-08-31T09:34:00.000-07:00

for those of you who don't know immersn has its own movie house.

well, technically we don't have it as much as one of our members runs a theater and we like to go there and watch movies...a lot!

so, that member (his name is jason) sent this video clip which will most likely make its immersn debut at the very first service this year (sept 16) because it ties in beautifully with our opening series 'who are you?' which asks the question and then seeks to answer it by showing us that who we are is directly dependent on who GOD thinks we are...we just tend to forget that.

so, many thanks to jason for this amazing clip and jason's theater (check it out here) for all the amazing indie films and films with a conscience that they choose to show (sometimes to their own financial detriment) you are both super-cool!

anyhoo, here is the immersn e-debut of 'white man' by the michael gungor band

the age of stupid

2009-08-18T07:56:00.000-07:00

we want to thank paul (paul@immersn.com) for many cool things he has brought to immersn.
1) melissa (she is the coolest)
2) tech savvy
3) love of beer & chats
4) cannibal the musical
5) creativity coupled with the ability to make such creative things happen
6) this movie...

The Age of Stupid Trailer Feb 2009 - SD from Age of Stupid on Vimeo.

edenism is such a major part of our little community and our desire to love the planet that god has given to us drives us to use less energy, walk/ride/carpool more, live more responsibly but the fact of the matter is that we are living in dangerous times.

we encourage you to check out this movie...it looks fascinating and while we are sure it will join the pantheon of immersn films that we have called films that matter to be seen some time over the next year we invite you to check out the site (found here) and see if there isn't some way you could host a viewing in your home/church/bus stop...wherever.

we have lots of choices but only one planet.

hallelujah and forgive us LORD.

immersn during the summer

2009-07-04T10:16:00.000-07:00

well...we have officially down-shifted for the summer months.

'so, what does immersn in the summer look like?' you might ask.

well, there are still times to gather as a community...they are just not at our usual spot or at our usual times.

we still gather to talk about life, faith, GOD, and stuff but in the summer it is even more casual than during the rest of the year.

so, keep an eye on the calendar for upcoming community nights and events and keep firing off suggestions for services in the fall.

so far the 2009-2010 agenda includes:

lectures on the dead sea scrolls followed by a roadtrip to the ROM to see them live
welcoming back two of our global missionaries and hearing about their experiences in africa
some guest speakers talking about supporting burgeoning entrepeneurs in developing nations
more guest speakers from the national post talking about religion, politics, faith..etc.
even more guest speakers from various faith groups who will be sharing their worldviews and thoughts on GOD
and, of course, plenty of topics [all chosen by the community] to discuss, deepen and enrich our faith-lives.

remember GOD is with us and calling to us to become immersed in a life devoted to Him...even in the summer!

1 Timothy 1:14 The grace of our Lord was poured out on me abundantly, along with the faith and love that are in Christ Jesus.

blessings on you...stay in touch.

worship matters 2009

2009-06-26T15:28:00.001-07:00

this video was made for the worship matters conference in ottawa this past week.

heather drove to ottawa to speak on behalf of our community and share what it is we are doing on wed nights.

she brought back a report to the group and we are thrilled with the chance to explore greater contacts with our brother and sister churches around the nation.

anyhoo, for now here is the video from the conference (please do not download without permission):

community poems

2009-06-02T07:36:00.000-07:00

these will be posted in the forums for people to read and comment on. also, linda fletcher has expressed an interest in putting these to music so we might be singing these songs on some future worship service...cool.

anyhow, here are the two poems that we composed as a community:

The Cross at Sunset
How did the sky look to You, the night You hung on the cross carrying my sin?
The cross' shadow reaches farthest as the light draws to a close.
See the glow of the setting sun radiate around the cross:
"Lord, I'm moving toward Your cross and I often take too many side trips."

I see you at a distance, yet you take my breath away.
I enter the comfort of
the dark.
Suddenly, a calmness swept through my body.

Like the sun, we are continually falling and continually rising
Oh, beautious cross, my strength and my salvation
you are with us when we fall. We'll see you again the next time that we rise.

with a promise to rise again...

GOD
God-must have a good sense of humour, after all, He created man.
How to begin to capture God in a single sentence? Whole books & entire religions have not pinned down the mystery.
The big shabang-the whole deal-The G force-the king maker-the deal breaker-and the limits to space, time, matter, and all that we don't even understand!
In life there is no finer word than God, our all in all.

O God of all the People-of all the lands & Space & Stars and of all the creations within nature, Please walk with me-small and humble, though, I be.
You are too deep and wide, yet You live with me.

You see me when no one else does, You know everything about me and yet You still call me "Beloved".
God-my comfort and my strength when ever I call You I feel You there.
longing to be home with You...
water filling every cup, the wind in every sail, The soil at every root.

Images of clouds and light appear, but I know that's not it. I think deeper...deep to the colour of the yellow warmth You put in my heart, the red of the blood You shed for me, the rainbow of creation. And then black and white. three words: 'You', 'Me', and 'Everyone'.

psalms & souls: an evening of community poetry

2009-05-19T10:33:00.000-07:00

one of the most profound sections in scripture is the book of psalms.

within the 150 poems the human experience is poured out and laid bare before god and other humans.

triumph, betrayal, rage, sorrow, joy, despair, hope, anguish, and other emotions and situations are presented for all to see, judge, relate to and admonish.

at immersn

we believe we follow a GOD who hears our pain,

we believe we follow a GOD who laughs with us,

we believe we follow a GOD who dances alongside us

we believe we follow a GOD who cries within us

we believe we follow a GOD who honours our life.

with that in mind we will gather, as a community, and create, as a community, poems to the LORD.

poems of celebration, poems of anger, poems of frustration, poems of joy.

whatever the poems will look like we will only allow three restrictions:

they must be honest

they must be to GOD

they must be created by each of us together

we will pray, listen to music, look at some images for inspiration.

then we will create together as children of the CREATOR.

let us mark each others' souls with words from our hearts.

psalms and souls: an evening of community poetry.

7pm....come.

art and soul (part 1)

2009-05-03T11:03:00.000-07:00

peanut butter and chocolate.

two things that sound like they do not belong together until some genius decided they did.

we are going to do something similar (though nowhere near as financially lucrative!)

we are combining prayer and painting

immersn artist victoria pearce will be leading the community through an art-worship service for the next two weeks

we will gather, pray, and then...paint.

no talent is required. just grubby clothes, a love of God, and opposable thumbs (y'know, to hold the brushes)

this is going to be one fun night with a very talented local artist who knows a thing or two about the Spirit as well.

happy painting!!

here is a video of someone with talent...but let this inspire and not prevent you from coming!!

heart stories

2009-04-28T08:18:00.000-07:00

2 Corinthians 1: 3-7
Praise be to the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, the Father of compassion and the God of all comfort, who comforts us in all our troubles, so that we can comfort those in any trouble with the comfort we ourselves have received from God. For just as the sufferings of Christ flow over into our lives, so also through Christ our comfort overflows. If we are distressed, it is for your comfort and salvation; if we are comforted, it is for your comfort, which produces in you patient endurance of the same sufferings we suffer. And our hope for you is firm, because we know that just as you share in our sufferings, so also you share in our comfort.

it is in sharing with each other that we set free ourselves. however, jesus also warns us not to cast our pearls before swine so we must be vigilant not to share our pearls with those who will not appreciate or understand what a rare gift we are giving to them.

with that in mind...we are trying something new-ish.

a night dedicated to heart stories

we have always been an open community sharing opinions and points of view with each other.

however, these sharing times have always been built around a certain topic

tomorrow is going to be different because we ARE the topic.

an evening dedicating to sharing, offering testimonies, of where we have seen God at work in our own lives. an evening dedicating to sharing our own experiences in order to bless others. a spiritual open mic night so to speak.

7-8.15
coffee and snacks will be there, the introduction of our new devotional and some beautiful music. hope you can join us.

we offer this video to you. although it is part of another church's stewardship campaign we think it offers some powerful reminders of what this thing called faith is supposed to be all about.

edenism: take back the planet

2009-04-21T10:03:00.000-07:00

what are we supposed to do?

is al gore our messiah?

after all, the environment is a hot topic right now [no pun intended] but how should a believer approach such an issue.

as with all things we need to look at something like this with both our hearts AND our minds.

is recycling enough? why has the church been so late to the party on this issue?

immersn purposefully avoids the use of paper as much as possible and uses very little electricity each week but does any of this really matter?

are we polishing brass on the titanic?

the great thing about the faith is that we are always called to believe that there is something that can be done. that the night is not everlasting. that evil does not need to win. that our destiny is a new creation and not destruction. with that in mind let us talk ever-so-briefly about edenism:

he-don-ism

[heed-n-iz-uhm]–noun
1.
the doctrine that pleasure or happiness is the highest good.

ed-en-ism

[eed-n-iz-uh m]- noun
1. giving of our own time and energy to worship God by caring for creation

while films like an inconvenient truth are helpful in that the budgets and the science and the celebrity attached to them are incredibly useful to get the message out there is something else that a community of believers can add to the equation: love.

we need to take the idea that we could destroy this planet [which, at the risk of overstating the obvious is our home] we also need to see this planet as a profound work of art which sustains us and is a testament to how much we are loved.

therefore, edenism is not just an effort to combat pollution...it is an act of worship, penance if you will, and an apology to god for how we have treated this work of art granted to us by on high.

if we believe that what happens in our bodies impacts our souls then a night spent picking up garbage for god is a profoundly impacting evening given over to our lord. our souls take part in re-claiming god's work. as we scrape the crud and junk from the street [or the woods as in the case of this immersn] we also remove the crud and junk from ourselves. we see all the things that block us from the beautiful view of god that was [and is] ours by right. our souls are also polluted and from that pollution comes the lack of care for how we treat this world and the people in it.

tomorrow night let us, as jesus taught, "wash the feet of god" by cleaning up a small part of the creation so generously bestowed upon us.

2009-04-14T09:46:00.000-07:00

Shakespeare was a smart guy. He could express the human condition better and more clearly than anyone.

Whether 'tis nobler in the mind to suffer

The slings and arrows of outrageous fortune,

Or to take arms against a sea of troubles,

And by opposing end them?

To fight or not to fight. To go to war, or to protest against war. Where, as Christians, do we stand?

For as long as there have been communities of mankind, there has been war. But then along comes Jesus, who states that the way forward is a way of peace. Of not fighting, but turning the other cheek. Blessed are the peacemakers, for they will be called the sons of God (Matthew 5:9).

How do we live with such a commandment in a world as war-torn as ours? Is there such a thing as Just War – a necessary evil to keep the peace? What is the difference between a soldier and a peacekeeper? Are we to stand back and die for peace, just as Jesus died for us and the martyrs died for him, or are we called to fight oppression and wrongdoing in God's name? Peter carried a sword in the garden of Gethsemane; Jesus whipped the extortionists who littered the temple's holy ground. How does that resonate with our own understandings of Christ and his teachings?

It is a topic that asks a lot of questions, none of which have easy answers. But they are necessary questions.

Holy Week Seder Meal

2009-04-06T22:02:00.000-07:00

the seder is a jewish meal rich in tradition and symbolism and community
we gather and eat and remember the story of salvation
each part of the meal is an offering to God
the dinner IS the grace.
7pm
plus dessert and a powerful spiritual discipline that will hopefully stick with you for a long time.

This is the holiest time in the christian calendar and we want to mark the event by partaking [and transforming] an event that is thousands of years old.
please join us and celebrate and reflect on the significance of this holiest of weeks.
we walk together
we eat together
we live together
we are together

here is a brief video about the dayyenu from a christian perspective [not sure what a dayyenu is? watch the video]

roadtrip to africa

2009-03-31T10:26:00.000-07:00

well.....not literally,

but we are going to move from our usual location to st. simon's anglican church for an evening to learn from carol holmes and her recent trip to africa with the stephen lewis foundation

this is an issue close to the heart of immersn because poverty anywhere should cause pain everywhere.

attached to this is a video from bono as he spoke at the white house prayer breakfast. take a moment to watch this video

it is true that god is consistently shown to be on the side of the poor and the exploited throughout the scriptures.

in fact, jesus' ministry began with an interpetation of isaiah that was focused on setting people free from spiritual, physical and material poverty.

luke 4: 18-21 reads:

18"The Lord's Spirit
has come to me,
because he has chosen me
to tell the good news
to the poor.
The Lord has sent me
to announce freedom
for prisoners,
to give sight to the blind,
to free everyone
who suffers,
19and to say, `This is the year
the Lord has chosen.' "
20Jesus closed the book, then handed it back to the man in charge and sat down. Everyone in the meeting place looked straight at Jesus.
21Then Jesus said to them, "What you have just heard me read has come true today."

it is central to the christian message that we plead the case of the poor, hear the voice of the oppressed & see that god is more concerned with us than we are with each other. as a friend of mine recently wrote on facebook: "[i am] pretty sure that God is a humanitarian first."

amen.

here are the details:

meet @ the usual place at 7...then we'll carpool over.

meet @ st. simon's at 7.15

free coffee...free snax too.

hope you can make it...let us usher in the holy week by seeking to learn more about those closest to the divine heart.

an evening of guided prayer...let us walk where angels trod.

2009-03-24T12:50:00.000-07:00

hey gang,

tomorrow night should prove to be very unique...very powerful...very moving.

we will gather, enojy some music, then Cathy Winn will lead us in an evening of guided prayer which is something we rarely get to do (and many of you may know nothing about it) but is a wonderful discipline in which to partake.

hope you can join us as we engage the spiritual world.

what is an angel? why do we care how many of them can dance on the head of a pin?

2009-03-17T07:07:00.000-07:00

there is something fascinating about this topic isn't there?

after all, what could be more fun [or frustrating] than trying to understand the un-understandable?

we sit with each other and we talk about demons and we look at the bible and through it all we learn that god is in love with us...that darkness is real and that we are never alone...which is both comforting and scary.

although we live in a scientific and cynical world we are beginning to realize that there is more going on out there than we can detect with our five senses. reality is not dependent on us.

with that in mind we are attempting to lay the groundwork for underdstanding the role of the spiritual beings within our own lives.

the bible takes it for granted that the spiritual world exists...that may make the material irrelevant to some but for others the idea of a spiritual world that is just as real as ours is not so outlandish.

we need to ask these questions and look for answers...we need to approach topics like this in unfamiliar ways...we are not going to intellectually comprehend this topic, we need to rationally explore with our minds and our souls.

this has proven to be an interesting discussion starter and as we discuss the role of angels in the world we take one more step closer to a deeper understanding of the supernatural world...and one more step closer to understanding our own world as well.

join us wednesday, march 18 @ 7 in the hall for food, [fair trade] coffee, snax, community, films & great discussion.

the war in heaven...the battlefield on earth

2009-03-10T12:05:00.000-07:00

are we so sure that what we cannot see, hear, smell, touch or taste does not exist?

is it true that what we don't see truly can't hurt us?

is it outlandish to think that a supernatural world exists?

if this world exists...are they benevolent towards us?

last week a group of us gathered to sing, eat, watch, read and share on the topic of demons.

this week we will gather with more music, more food, more things to read and we will dive into the netherworld to see if we can't catch a glimpse of the war which wages on in heaven.

at the heart of the christian message is the eschatological realization of the kingdom of god. not an earthly realm but the spiritual home of yahweh and the followers/disciples of christ (not the same thing as a christian).

but we live in a world torn apart with war, violence, greed, sexual perversion, selfishness and a list that is so massive it threatens to swallow us whole.

however, we are children of hope and our gospel is an attempt to radically subvert the current state of things (not by wearing crappy shirts with stupid logos on them that supposedly i.d. us as christians) and offer hope to a dark and (possibly) dying world.

we are creators and creations, hope-givers and hope-needers, we are the called and the calling, we are both angels and demons.

let's talk about it.

mar 11...7pm.
bring your soul, we'll supply the coffee.

angels & demons

2009-03-03T07:44:00.001-08:00

we are children of another world.

we are in this world but not of this world.

there are children of darkness.

there are children of light.

celestial beings...and evil creatures of malice.

in north america ideas like these seem like fantasy & myth (or the fodder for teen vampire books)

however, one of the truths of the christian faith is that we are indeed engaged in a spiritual conflict with cosmic importance. the bible is full of supernatural encounters..even before the time of jesus.

what are we, 2000 years later, to make of this?

thus begins our newest series: angels & demons...a look at the supernatural.

this wednesday, march 4th we will begin by talking about lucifer. who is he? where did he come from? what do we think about him?

join us...no doubt an interesting & fascinating evening of discussion is in store.

7pm....in the hall.

we rise in ashes

2009-02-25T12:07:00.000-08:00

lent is upon us...

you can tell because tim horton's has its roll up the rim to win on again

[they always have these contests around lent in order to balance out their books based on all the money they lose because people give up junk in lent...who says the church doesn't impact culture?!]

traditionally the christian church signals the beginning of the season of repentance by placing ashes on our foreheads to symbolize our regret over sin.

tonight we will worship together in a taize service which will include music, reflection, prayer, art, imagery & times of contemplation.

it is a powerful way for the community to come together and express corporate regret over our trespasses and to stand with each other...all of us dirtied by the ash...none of us without a mark...all dependent on grace.

look to the foreheads of your brothers and sisters & see the love of God.

we are forgiven

thanks be to God.

the shopocalypse

2009-02-03T12:21:00.001-08:00

this week we will learn about a new theological development regarding eschatology.

no, it is not the end of the world

then again, maybe it is

it is......the shopocalypse

check out this trailer and then join us this wed night as we watch rev. billy's crusade against wal-mart, the demons in the cash registers and the impending shopocalypse.

join us

the lost generation

2009-01-20T09:38:00.000-08:00

tear down the walls of those who say it cannot be done.

breatheeatsleeplive peace
breatheeatsleeplive love
breatheeatsleeplive hope
breatheeatsleeplive faith
breatheeastsleeplive the kingdom

bring the kingdom...go on bring it. we dare you.

walking with Jesus

2008-11-18T08:36:00.000-08:00

too often we see the walk with Jesus like the poem footprints.

but is that how our life really feels most of the time?

many of us struggle and fall and get hurt and cry out and feel like walking with god is nothing like walking on a beach. more like climbing a mountain...in the rain...at night...with donkey kong throwing those barrels at us!

so, in the spirit of recognizing the walk for what it often feels like. please watch this video, sent by rose, and hopefully we can see that the walk can feel dangerous at times...but, when you follow god, you are always in the right hands!

walking with god through hell is better than walking alone in a meadow.

happy trails!

we are the beloved sons and daughters of God

2008-11-07T21:24:00.000-08:00

it is important for our humanity to remember our part in divinity.

we must claim and live a life based on the knowledge that who we are is a result of by Whom we are loved.

we gathered on wed evening to sing, pray and realize that we are not what is in our wallets, we are not our cars, we are not our khakis....

we are not who people say we are..whether good or bad. we are who god says we are...and god says we are beloved.

that is how we are to live when they look at us and cry 'hosanna'

that is how we are to live when they look at us and cry 'crucify'

for that is how the One lived while he walked the dust of this world.

one of our family members sent this clip. we watched it and were deeply blessed by it. thank you dan. here is the clip for the rest to enjoy...take 17 mins out of your day and watch this. if you do not have time right now then skip the video but do yourself a solid and come back to it:

last night was another in our series 'false idol: a look at the 7 deadly sins for the 21st century' and last night's does not have a catchy title like the others.

last night we talked about the drive within each of us to answer 'who am i?' with stuff, accomplishments, reputation..etc.

we needed to be reminded that the only thing that truly defines us is 'beloved'

we are beloved of god...that is who we are. now we must live as such.

we will pause in our series on the 12th to honour those who have fallen in, what i think is the ultimate evidence of the fallen nature of humanity: war. that is worth breaking up a series.

when we return we will look at failure. we will celebrate failure. we will embrace all that we do wrong. for in that we are given the chance to see that we are beloved.

when we are weak...then we are strong.

when we fail...then we can succeed.

when we see that we are beloved...then we see ourselves.

amen.

(now go back and watch the clip!)

remember, remember the 5th of november...

2008-11-05T12:26:00.000-08:00

what a day to be interested in politics.

regardless of who you wanted to see win the popular vote is that yesterday was a victory for all americans and the world.

in italy (i think) they printed a picture of obama with the caption 'the world has a new emperor'

powerful stuff

let us pray for this man, his safety and the safety of his family as he prepares to undertake a monumental task come january 09.

god bless the united states.

would it be so wrong to pray for rain?

2008-10-08T12:25:00.000-07:00

watch this clip and ask yourself the same question: is it wrong to pray for rain?

is it wrong to pray for a candidate?

is it wrong to pray against a candidate?

after all, don't we believe that god works in and through prayer?

if we think someone is truly opposed to god's will should we not pray against their success...not their destruction but just their success?

should we not champion christian issues and demand that our leaders do the same?

paul, in romans 13, tells us to pray for the leaders and to be good citizens and pay our taxes (even jesus does that...'render unto ceasar' and all that).

so, we gathered and we voted. we voted and talked about whether or not it is right for a christian, a follower of jesus, to vote their faith.

then we discovered something kind of funny. in the book of revelation (note not revelations there is no 's' although most think there is) john calls rome the 'whore of babylon' who is 'drunk on the blood of the martyrs'

yikes!!

turns out that not even the bible has a consistent view of the christian church's responsibility to the state.

it was then, as we talked, that one of our people raised her hand and asked the question:

'i mean, we have seen time and again that all the people in this group have different ideas so how can we possibly define what a christian issue even is?'

bingo.

what IS a christian issue? abortion? same sex marriage? education? health care? national security? international aid? welfare? the environment? you can make an argument for each one of these.

and we did.

the group voted on a series of 14 issues compiled from various polls that showed what the 'hot button' issues for christians are (or, more accurately, the ones most christians are told to think are the important ones) and we voted.

here is our top 4 (not ranked): environment, health, education, international aid.

interesting. the top two issues for christians in the u.s. & canada combined were: abortion, same sex marriage and immigration.

are we less christian? or more canadian?

interesting.

someone pointed out that welfare did not even crack our top ten.

interesting.

someone else pointed out that while neither got a lot of votes pro-life beat out pro-choice in our group.

interesting.

even though the market had crashed the economy was only number 6 on our scale.

interesting.

the point is this: the notion of a christian issue is largley problematic to solve in the political ring because, and let's be honest here, christianity is not about making other people believe what we do.

sure, we can try to convince others about what we believe (hopefully more with actions than with words!) but we must realize that we have a pluralistic nation and we must allow all people, no matter how they worship (or whom) the freedom to do just that. it is not long after that that you begin to see that we have all been sold a line about christian issues and that we are being taken for a ride by people who want to win elections.

life should be protected. that is clear in the faith. but not just at the moment of birth but through the entire time a person live on this earth. how can someone be pro-life and pro-capital punishment? it is possible but that stance deserves to be scrutinized heavily.

that was what, hopefully, we came away with. voting is a privilege but there is no such thing as a christian party (and even if there was and even if they came to power that would just mean that people would start saying they were christian so that they could be in power too...so don't get all misty-eyed about the idea of christian's in control. we tend to hoop it as bad as anyone!) but there is such a thing as a christian voter.

so, as we head to the polls in a little less than a week let us remember that we are people of faith. however that influences your voting, vote who you think is best but before you do that, pray. ask god for help.

and may god bless our nation and the people in it...and the people in america...and in mexico.....and afghanistan...and england...and iraq....and australia....and sudan.....and peru.....and...........

faith that matters...films that matter

2008-09-21T22:32:00.000-07:00

this week we will be swept away again to uganda

join us as we learn more about child soldiers forced to fight

be inspired

become educated

make a difference

find the unseen

7pm

go for change

2008-09-02T12:15:00.000-07:00

our first gathering is all set

immersion is proud to present the premiere of the documentary

GO: HOW FAR WOULD YOU GO FOR CHANGE?

on wed. sept 17th in the hall.

we hope you can join us for this powerful video and invite you to watch some of the clips from YouTube.

the members of invisible children will be joining us to answer questions and engage us in dialogue about helping children in uganda.

the more the merrier, so please invite as many people as you want to this event. if you would like some posters or know of some people who might be interested in promoting this event please contact jamie at jamieatwalton@yahoo.ca

peace...we really mean that.

stay tuned

2008-08-23T16:33:00.000-07:00

just a note to say that our first official service back will be wed (of course) sept 17th

we are lining up some great stuff for september but after that it is up to the community to decide where we go!!

spoiler alert: we have already been asked to screen a new documentary on the civil war in uganda from an american film company...so we are going to be hosting these travelling radicals and showcasing their film...watch for that in the coming weeks

and we are also getting ready to launch the new interactive online community website for immersion. this one will allow each member to contribute to the site just like we do on wed nights. we are hoping all the bugs and kinks will be worked out by the 17th so stay tuned for that!

as someone great once said: T-T-T-T-That's all folks!! (well, for now anyway)

we're cashing in for the summer

2008-07-03T12:52:00.000-07:00

well, the first year of immersion is over already!

we can hardly believe where the time is gone.

so many new friendships have been formed..so many new topics addressed.

it has been great and we look forward to exploring all sorts of new craziness in the fall.

stay tuned to this blog for more updates and [hopefully] the brand new interactive website will be ready to go in september...it will be awesome and has us to spread our community out through cyberspace.

stay tuned

remain immersed in God

what is sin?

2008-06-17T14:26:00.001-07:00

Last night I fearlessly led the discussion at iMMERSION - our alternative service on Wednesday nights.

The discussion for this week and the next are on Sin, and it was up to me to present the sides of the debate, open up the table to some dialogue, and hopefully get them thinking in ways they may not have imagined.And I think I did it.

For Original Sin, I wanted to start at the beginning and discuss what exactly happened in Eden. It was the beginning of things, wasn't it? So we started off with the Genesis 3 passages, followed by (thank you, YouTube!) a Born Again instructional video, whose bible verse reader sounded like Sideshow Bob from The Simpsons actually.

I could tell that their first impressions to the video were similar to my own - heads were shaking at the arrogant parts, corners of lips were twitching at the overly dramatic music. So I let them get their thoughts off their chest, then plunged straight into An Athiest's View On Original Sin - another YouTube find.

Only I read it out loud instead of playing the video (which was really just a voice and floating pictures). I saw more heads shaking and lips being nibbled in thought with this one. It asked a lot of tough questions that made you think for a second.

With the readings over with, we headed right into discussion. Thank you to all the contributors over on the Original Sin Questions topic - I got a fantastic response to all of them! I recommend popping over and reading all the suggestions, but in the end I chose these six:

1. How much of Christianity rests on the concept of Sin?

2. What is Original Sin? What was the original sin?

3. Does sin pass down through generations?

4. Is it our (humankind's) fault, God's fault, or no one's fault?

5. Does "Original Sin" mean we are inherently bad, or are we just inherently lacking something? What do these possibilities say about God?

6. Is it healthy for humans to hold the view that all people are born as sinners? How does this worldview affect our lives?

Our dialogue was great - we actually went naturally from some questions into others, and the ideas kept flowing. We wondered if God had designed us to be rebellious, or if Sin was just a human concept, or if Jesus died to remind us that we should not fear God... not to instruct what was Good or Evil.Finally, I read the story of the Garden of Eden from one of my favourite books: "Ishmael" by Daniel Quinn. It was an incredible feeling, as I read nearly four full pages from the book, of everyone's eyes captivated on me. Well, not on me, but on the words. I could see the ideas unfolding new ideas in their minds as I spoke. I had feared that it might be boring, to sit and listen to me read page after page, but that fear vanished quickly as I read on. A bit of stunned silence hung in the air when I had finished. But it quickly turned back into refreshed discussion, and I actually ended up lending the book out after everything wrapped up.

All in all, a surprisingly successful night. We'll see what happens next week, when we start discussing the kind of Sin we see everyday, and whether or not God keeps track of points.

wwjs? where would jesus shop?

2008-05-16T13:49:00.000-07:00

there is no 'right' answer but there is a wrong idea behind the current state of north-american christianity.

consumerism is our idol and the true cost is being felt more by the developing world than our own pockets.

and if you know anything about god you know that god is always with the poor. so, if our products are causing some harm to the poor what do you think that makes god feel?

so, i am not saying that jesus would never shop at wal-mart [but i never will] but i am saying that jesus would never just settle for blaming some big corporation and then moving on...jesus was nothing if not passionate about personal change.

with that in mind we would like to introduce you to 'trade as one'

t.a.o. is about bringing people with money together with tradespeople/artisans in developing nations. thus, we can purchase stuff like food, cards, purses and toys from people who are not part of some large [and lead filled] corporation. instead, our money is going to an individual trying to use their skills to support their family.

this is not the solution, but it does get us thinking about ways in which we can change lives with the stuff we buy.

that might be more in keeping with how jesus would shop.

check our their site...it's on the side of this page as well as linked in this article

commments?

psalms: and explosion of creativity

2008-05-15T13:15:00.000-07:00

last night we walked from musical genre to musical genre as we explored the psalms.
[some of the songs played are listed on the video bar]

we had 'audio stations' in the hopes that people would become inspired by something they heard.

at each station a bible was open to a different psalm. our community was invited to read the psalm, listen to the music, watch a video solely about the face of jesus, or stare out the window and look at the waves crash on the beach, and then grab paper and pen and write some thoughts down.

the psalms capture the raw emotions of the human experience. anger, sadness, lonliness, despair, jubilation, remorse, feelings of abandonment, excitment, praise, ponderings...etc. you name it, it is in there.

so, last night we attempted to tap into that primal, creative part that links us with god and each other...and then spew that out onto paper.

for some this was not a pleasant idea...some simply sat quietly and enjoyed the music or art...some chatted and caught up with friends...others watched a jesus film...still others wrote poetry or drew pictures.

that's the great thing about experimenting in worship...you never know where you'll go.

at the end we gathered together to talk about the night and heather shared a poem that she wrote during this time. we decided to end the night with this poem as it was such a powerful example of artistic, verbal worship that we needed nothing further.

so...here it is...enjoy:

I loved her.

That was why I found sand scorching my feet, and air burning out my mouth, and a torrential shower of heat beating down from the arrogant sun.

I loved her.

I stopped eating; not because I wasn't hungry, but because I feared my appetite.

That was why I had left. I felt that appetite inside me, ready to devour all that was good and innocent about her.

She had already been through Hell.

I loved her.

I didn't want to lose her.Could the heat get worse? This -was- Hell, ready to gobble up anything cold or moist.

And then I saw her. She stood there, radiant in the glare.

In her outstretched hands was her heart.

It looked delicious and cool, and I knew that a single bite of it would fill my stomach and give me strength.But then I looked at her face. She was crying, her cheeks salty and red... and I realized that it was not her heart, but mine. "Take it," I whispered through parched lips. "You have been hungry for love longer than I have." As if she had been a cloud across the sun, she vanished and the heat returned with a vengeance.

I continued to walk.

I loved her, and though I refused her food, that gnawing appetite still remained.

I felt the sand slide through my toes as the land began to rise. Up and up I climbed, until I came to the dune's crest.

The sun glared and stole my sight in a blinding flash. I saw her again as I cowered away from the furious sky.

There she knelt at my feet, her head down, her dark hair like a shining river flowing across the sand. I loved her. She drew her hand across my sandal and tried to undo it."Show me that you love me," she breathed. I could feel the promise of cool water and fragrant oil smoothed over my hard, calloused feet. But I loved her. So instead, I knelt in front of her."Love is not a show."Again, she vanished.

I started descending the dune, stumbling through the amber grit.

The world disappeared around me in a haze of heat, and I could feel nothing but my stomach, still empty and demanding.

I loved her, and it hurt.

I wondered why I was still walking. She was a mirage - she did not exist.

She was dead. Why was I still walking?

I loved her.

But did she love me?

Would she ever love me?

Had it been yet another mirage?

I stumbled, and at that moment an overwhelming desire to stop - to lie down, to stop walking towards that hope in front of me - flooded through my body."I love... her..." I stuttered aloud. My dry tongue betrayed me - I had meant to say 'loved'. But it was right, it was true, and the words had an incredible effect on me.

I stood upright, walked straight, and raised my face defiantly towards the sun.

I love her.

She is not an appetite, she is not a craving.

I accepted the ache in my stomach as still being present,

and I continued walking. It could not tempt me, because I love her.

And she had become my need, my ache.

And all the pain, the heat and the weariness only made my love clearer and stronger.

So I walked until I came home, knowing that I love her.

And I will love her beyond giving up,

beyond despair,

beyond temptation and appetite.

No matter if she loves me or not,

I love her.

selah.

worship is not something we do...it is something we live.

become immersed in worship and nothing in life will ever be trivial again.

not music. not film. not art. not taking out the garbage. not shopping. not family. not friends. nothing..not even you.

for if we lose our life for christ...it is then that we find it.

see ya next week....

grace too

2008-05-09T21:44:00.001-07:00

this will be a short post about the movie keeping mum

you really must watch this film and no one enjoys spoilers so why don't we just concentrate on the comments made by those in the community who watched the film, okay?

the story of the goodfellow clan charmed us all and we had many comments about the lighting in the film, the beauty of the shots, the excellent acting, and the moving recitation of the song of solomon

[spoiler: rev. goodfellow says about the song of solomon: 'o, that is a book about a man's devotion to his Lord.'

grace retorts: 'no, it's about sex.']

at the end we spoke about the existence of grace in the lives of the characters in the story [in which case grace quite literally lived them as that was the name of their new nanny] and then how grace lives with us in our own lives.

the grace in the film comes in to dispatch [hint, hint] of the problems in this seemingly perfect, though deeply wounded family [the husband/reverend is oblivious to his wife and children; the wife is having an affair with her golf instructor, the daughter is fully steeped in her raging libido and the son is being bullied at school]. slowly, the family is transformed into a more visibly flawed, but much more real and happy group.

the transformation does not happen over night but it does happen. is that not like grace in our own lives?

although this is a satirical look at life the message is that grace, once it is invited in to our lives, can do no other thing than transform us.

the message of christ was not 'you are okay just the way you are.' but was, 'you are deeply wounded, so much so that you don't even see it anymore. allow me to come in, believe that i will, and i will change you profoundly from the inside.'

we are all wounded and although many of us have perfect masks to get us through each day that is not the abundant life christ calls us to.

although it is not necessarily noticeable at first it does come, and the problems of this world grow strangely dim. it may even bring resentment from those around us who have become comfortable with the status quo and look on any kind of change as alien and threatening...even if that change promises to make their lives better too.

in the end...the movie got us to look at the fact that grace needs to be a very real presence in each one of our homes and while the methods grace employs aren't always what we would choose we must, like rev. goodfellow states in his sermon, realize that god is mysterious folks, deal with it!

god loves you too much to leave you the same.

we're outta hell

2008-05-01T11:53:00.000-07:00

it is official...we are out of hell

it was quite the journey through fire [both real and metaphorical] and darkness [also, both real and metahporical] and have emerged, somewhat unscathed on the other side.

all euphimisms aside, it was an engaging series full of new discoveries and fascinating discussions.

last night we concluded the series talking about the conditional view of salvation. are all humans destined for immortality or is eternal life conditional on acceptance of christ and following in the footsteps of god?

this view is also known as annihilationism because those who refuse to spend eternity with god are, literally, annihilated and cease to exist.

the reasoning is that god honours all decisions of the human species, even those who do not choose him. clark pinnock words it like this:

"He will not save [people] if they do not want to be saved. God wills the salvation of all people (2 Peter 3:9) but will fail to save some of them on account of their human freedom...Sinners do not have to be saved and will not be forced to go to heaven. They have a moral 'right' to hell...In the end he will allow us to become what we have chosen."

god has no obligation to keep everyone alive. only god is truly immortal and bestows immortality upon those who are the children of god.

is not everyone the child of god?

no. according to christ in john 8:38-40 some of the people were the children of the devil!

the idea that everyone is a full-blooded child of god is not biblical and that must be taken seriously.

we must also take the teachings of the bible seriously on the matter of hell. it is an uncomfortable topic but that is precisely why we chose it as a topic. every sensitive christian should, at least once, question how we can reconcile a loving god [as we see in jesus] with a god who allows people to burn for eternity for sins they committed while trapped in time. that is a legitimate grievance. we can dislike the idea of hell all we want [and many people at the immersion services throughout the weeks have expressed that] but this is not about what we like or dislike. it is about trying to understand and be faithful to One who we are called to serve...not the other way around.

back to the topic at hand.

pinnock argues that the bible never teaches the immortality of the soul but that this idea has crept in from greek philosophy. in fact, the bible teaches that those whom god declares as wicked are not kept alive forever to suffer inexpressible torments but are actually destined for destruction.

'hell' is not eternal suffering but is, in fact, the great nothing of nonexistence. a complete negation of the gift of life offered by god. a dark place, the outer ring where there will be weeping and gnashing of teeth. the wicked are burned up, consumed and exist no more. in the end days all that will exist will be the kingdom of god [as it says, god will be 'all in all' 1 corinthians 15:28] and those who have chosen not to exist there will not be in some dark corner of heaven just hanging out and burning. no, life will no longer be theirs to possess and so they will no longer be alive. they will be swallowed up by the second death that is described in rev. 20:5. thus, hell is still an inexpressibly horrible fate, but is not the inexplicably cruel fate described by those who support the traditional hypothesis. thus, we retain the fear of hell as jesus described it because that is a terrible fate. but we do not have the moral gymnastics to do in order to explain how a loving god can see the justice of building an eternal 'auschwitz' that does not even offer people the reprise of death.

however, is this scriptural?

pinnock [and myself] would argue that it is. here are some verses that clearly speak of the impending destruction [and not eternal torment] of the wicked:

2 thessalonians 1:9 everlasting destruction

matthew 13:30; 42; 49-50 weeds burned up and destroyed

galatians 6:8 god will destroy the wicked

1 corinthians 3:17

philippians 1:28 both of these spoke about the fate of the wicked being death

romans 1:32 the wicked deserve death

romans 6:23 the wages of sin is death

philippians 3:19 their destiny is death

2 peter 3:7 destruction of ungodly men

2 peter 2:1,3 swift destruction

2 peter 2:6 the evil will be like sodom and gomorrah which were utterly destroyed by god

jude 7 cites sodom as the city that underwent 'the punishment of eternal fire'

it seems pretty clear that death and destruction is all that await the rebellious ones. while those who are humble and serve can expect eternal life in the kingdom of god as their reward.

even the verses that speak of 'everlasting destruction' can be countered by other verses using the same language but referring to places that are not still burning to this day but were utterly destroyed [like sodom].

even jesus' use of the word gehenna can combat the idea of eternal suffering. the idea of the worm that does not die does not mean that people are eaten by worms forever but is a reference to isaiah 66:24 when there were so many dead that the worms were able to feast on. the smoke that rises is not to indicate eternal, conscious torment but imagery to indicate total destruction and consumption.

listen, this is not designed to give anyone warm fuzzies but that is because the topic of hell must be seen as a very real threat written about numerous times throughout the scriptures. we cannot and should not ever become comfortable with hell as a destiny for anyone we know. jesus was not comfortable with this prospect and went to the cross to make sure that it would not be the fate of humanity.

however, god's love for humanity is so deep and profound that a place like hell must exist because our Lord does not force his love onto anyone who does not want it.

the world is full of clues about god and god's love but, as cam pointed out last night, he seems to purposefully withdraw his full glory so that we are forced to rely on faith.

seeing god in all the splendour of the Creator would eliminate the need for faith. but it might also eliminate real love. and that is one thing that god is all about: love.

so, in conclusion, whether or not you like the traditional, metaphorical, purgatorial, or conditional view of hell is not the point. we should not 'like' any of it. we should dig through scripture in prayer to find an answer to this question that can be supported.

but, as we talk with our friends over a coffee or pint or whatever we should ask them what they think about hell and offer our guidance. we can talk about the use of symbolism and metaphor and feel utterly confident to agree that the idea of eternal suffering does not coinside with the loving picture we get of god in the new testament [and in the old testament as well].

we must remember, first and foremost, that the god we serve is the god of john 3:16; is the god of the oppressed and downtrodden; is the god of mercy, love and compassion. we must look at the doctrine of hell in the same way we are called to look at everything: through the lens of christ.

what does christ teach us?

what was he like?

was he tolerant of sin? no. but neither was he vicious and sadistic to sinners.

if we can begin our discussions about hell [and discussions is what they should always be since none of us know exactly what hell looks like we should all be willing to entertain suggestions and not assert our conjectures dogmatically. remember the suggestions tell us more about the person saying them than about actual hell and if we are trying to understand someone listening to what they think about something is the easiest way to see them a little clearer.] with christ in mind then our opinions will be tempered with love and compassion and, who knows, we might actually help some people learn more about god because we talked to them about hell!

stranger things have happened.

now, here's a song about god....

the walk of faith

2008-05-01T11:43:00.001-07:00

thanks to rose, one of our members, for this fantastic clip of the harrowing walk of el camino del rey.

we often talk about walking in faith and many of us picture a pleasant stroll through a sunlit field of fresh flowers with a bubbling stream. thus, we do not understand when things feel 'off' and we begin to think that we have been abandoned by god or that god was never with us to begin with.

however, if we start to think of our walk with god more like this we can see the inexplicable beauty of the journey but also the times when security and peace seem far and even times when life seems legitimately dangerous!

the walk of faith is more akin to el camino than it is to a pleasant sunday stroll! enjoy the view and remember that the destination at the end of the walk is worth it all!

happy viewing....

does heaven have a waiting room...besides florida?

2008-04-24T09:57:00.000-07:00

purgatory.

now, most of us at immersion have grown up in the protestant tradition of the christian faith.

therefore perhaps many of our knee jerk reactions were [are] to dismiss purgatory outright. not even consider it a viable option. of all the topics covered while we have been in hell this one is, perhaps, the most foreign. then again next week's topic [see sidebar] might be pretty new to people too.

back to the topic at hand: purgatory.

father hayes in his article "the purgatorial view" makes an excellent point that most christians [be they prot, cath or ortho] believe in some kind of interim period between when a person dies but before they reach their final, eternal destiny. what happened to the people who died before jesus came?

even the new testament writers seemed to communicate the idea that after we shuffle off this mortal coil we enter into a state of not-quite-thereness. paul calls it 'sleep' and mentions that those who are 'sleeping in the lord' will be the first to rise to meet christ in the sky and then the living faithful will join them afterwards.

sidenote: there are many people out there who think that this whole notion of flying corpses sounds more like clive barker than god. however, in the proper context, this idea of people meeting jesus in the sky makes perfect sense. in the ancient world when a king or diplomat for a king was approaching a city the people of that city would send out an envoy to meet them. it was a sign of honour and showed that they recognized the dignity of this person. so, when jesus-the King of kings-comes to earth would it not make sense in that culture that the people would come out to meet him? and he is not going to be riding on earth but coming from heaven so the natural conclusion is that we will meet him in the sky. now, minds today may scoff at this as ridiculous but let us be careful of being time-ists or too chronocentric and thinking that our point in time is superior to another point in time. they are communicating in ways that make sense and we reveal only our own ignorance and lack of understanding when we mock them. it is not paul or other people of that period that come off looking foolish, it is us.

once again, back to the topic at hand: purgatory.

so, many believe in an interim state between this time and the day of judgement. in fact, there is strong scriptural support for that position.

what about purgatory? well, that is different than the interim.

the idea of purgatory comes from wondering if god can still work on and with people during that interim state. thus, if you die short of attaining perfection in grace [which i think is a fate that we are all going to share in!] god keeps working on you in the interim until the day of judgement.

c.s. lewis explains it that if you show up at the gates of heaven and you are still covered in the filth of this world, wouldn't you want god to clean you up before you went into heaven...even if it hurt a little?

so, purgatory can be understood [somewhat tongue and cheek] as god turning the hose on you to wash all the guck of this world off before you enter his beautiful and pristine home.

make sense?

as father hayes puts it, his support of purgatory comes from a place of love for the many lost people in this world and for the massive amount of people who will die with unfinished business and for all of us who will die before fully realizing our christian identities.

he writes:

"As long as there was only heaven and hell, it was not suprising that hell would be heavily populated. But when the possibility of purification after death entered the scene, with it came the tendency to depopulate hell by placing many people in a sort of outer court of heaven until they were more fully prepared for entrance into the presence of God."

however, to caution against people using purgatory as an excuse for loose morality and thinking they can get away with anything in this life by simply making up for it in the next one, father hayes quotes augustine:

"[Augustine] argues that it is better to be cleansed in this life than the next, for the cleansing process in the next life will be far more severe than anything experienced in this life."

it is a tempting idea that there are more chances than just this life. clark pinnock writes that father hayes is the kind of priest protestants could learn from. his heart is good and his desire is for the lost and to see god as always capable of working with people. it is a wonderful idea and many at immersion last night were able to nod along to some of the different facets that purgatory teaches. even death cannot stop god's work in us.

the problem?

there is no scriptural support for the idea of purgatory. although a few places are quoted [notably: matthew 12:31-32 because it talks of the 'age to come'; and 1 corinthians 3:11-15 because paul talks about being purified in fire] but these are flimsy at best and open to many other interpretations.

also, what can god's 'hose' clean off that the death of christ could not? does god not see christ when he looks at us? are we not supposed to claim our eternal home in heaven as granted to us by christ and his death on the cross? many of us struggle with what that means but the simple fact seems to be that christ accomplished something so deep and profound on golgotha that there are no additions to be required. sadly, purgatory smacks of the ideology that paul dedicated so much of his life fighting against. we cannot add to jesus' sacrifice, we cannot do anything to bring about our own salvation. and to attempt that is to walk away from the grace of god and enter, once again, into the world of law and death.

it is tempting to think that there are chances for us [or, as we discovered last night, one of the driving principles behind our concern is for loved ones who do not know the lord] beyond this world. while there is no proof of purgatory and not even any good arguments for its existence it does teach us one very valuable thing: god works through us and with us to bring about our redemption.

god is always at work in us. that is clear. god is a god of grace and mercy. one of the threats about these kind of topics is that we can get bogged down in semantics which help no one [see the discussion between doug pagitt and todd friel on the video wall and you will see a philosophical discussion that did nothing to help our community understand the nature of hell better. it just made us all sad because neither man came off sounding good or willing to listen. however, it does sound like pagitt was blindsided] and communicate nothing of the grace that our lord put at the heart of his message.

true, jesus does talk about hell as a terrible place to avoid with every fiber of our being. but he showed people how beautiful the kingdom was with his healings and teachings on mercy and grace and even his parables were not designed to confuse but to invite people into the story of the kingdom. no, jesus was never about condemning the world but was all about saving the world. if we can remember that then we are better prepared to see hell for what it really is: a terrible place that is not part of the plan of god.

so...what is hell? we're still not sure. but the video at the end of this story shows us a pretty clear view of what hell on this earth looks like. but, more importantly, it also shows us the love of god on this planet as well.

see you next week.

a picture is worth a thousand screams

2008-04-17T09:55:00.000-07:00

"if your right eye causes you to sin, poke it out and throw it away. it is better to lose one part of your body, than for your whole body to end up in hell." [matthew 5:29]

"see that hot girl/guy over there?"
"yeah."
"you just committed lust!"
"oh no! what can i do to stop this infernal [pun intended] lusting?"
"gouge out your eye."
"really?"
"sure, jesus told us to."
"and that will make me stop lusting."
"according to the bible."
"okay, well then i guess that is what i have to do....wait."
"what?"
"what about my imagination?"

does anyone really think that blind people don't lust?

does anyone really think that deaf people don't curse?

does anyone really think that cutting off a hand makes a thief less of a thief?

no, it just makes them a blind pervert, a deaf person with anger issues and a thief with a bit of a tougher time ahead.

so, why would jesus say this stuff, then?

because he is not smart? because the bible is outdated? because he was having a bad day? because the faith called christianity is full of crap?

or...and let's just really put our thinking caps on for this one...

could jesus have actually been using metaphor or hyperbole to explain something?

gasp!!

he would not!

the bible is literal and inerrant and to ascribe to jesus the linguistic art of metaphor would be akin to crucifying him a second time!

if you think that then you probably stopped reading this blog a long time ago.

last night we sat together, sang beautiful one, unfailing love, faithful one & imagine, watched some videos [we highly recommend rowan atkinson's 'a warm welcome'], and talked about hell as a metaphor.

following the persuasive essay by william crockett we explored the numerous ways in which word-pictures have been used throughout scripture [including by jesus himself!]

some of the passages we read were: luke 14:26; matthew 7:5; mark 6:23; and revelation 21

in these words we learned that people apparently walked around with large pieces of timber jutting from their faces [jesus told them to remove them, but not for medical reasons but so they could perform complex optical surgery on their friends...not such a great physician after all!], and anyone who believes in god can make any mountain range they choose do calisthenics [this one is exciting for me since i come from the rocky mountains...there is going to be some shocked people on my next trip home!], and had to be murderously enraged with their own family members before they could even begin to consider themselves worthy of being jesus' followers [that's not too good for business, eh dr. dobson?]

apologies for the sarcasm but not accepting the metaphorical usage in scripture makes the story of christ move from amazing into the absurd and irrelevant faster than anything else. it is necessary to see that seeing jesus as capable of using rabbinic hyperbole does nothing to negate the influence and truth of the scriptures.

so...can this be applied to the doctrine of hell?

dr. crockett thinks so:

"There is nothing wrong with using images to teach truth. After all, Jesus used the images of fire and darkness to warn the wicked of the consequences of sin. Difficulties arise only when we insist that the images reflect concrete reality."

"Unfortunately, some people confuse a high view of Scripture with taking every word of the Bible literally."

we can see the images jesus use to paint the picture of the afterlife [both heaven: a room with many mansions and hell: like the burning garbage dump outside a city] as earthly representations of spiritual truths. after all, jesus is using words and phrases that make sense to people trapped in time and on this planet during a certain stage of history. he must establish a frame of reference or else the words mean nothing to any of us. we are dealing with symbols to describe realities of which our minds and experiences cannot begin to grasp. to take these symbols literally is to miss the point entirely.

"[jesus' metaphors are] not to give the reader a literal picture of torment, but a symbolic one."

"fire in Jewish and early Christian writings is regularly used to create a mood of seriousness or reverence...When the writers use fire to describe judgment or hell, they use a convenient image that will demonstrate the burning wrath of God."

feel better? the next time we dine with our friends and they challenge us on the idea that a loving god could not send someone to burn for eternity we can counter with the argument that fire throughout the bible is often a metaphor and jesus frequently used earthly matters to explain deeper ideas. like when we say we've seen something 'a million times' or 'that apple didn't fall far from the tree' we all acknowledge that they can have literal meanings but most understand that they are being used metaphorically.

then your friend will become instantly relieved [maybe even offering to buy you lunch] and become a professed follower on the spot! and as soon as the excitement dies down they will ask

"so, if hell isn't all full of fire, what is it like then?"
[pause]
"i'll pay for lunch."

we are right back where we started! the only thing that changed was the mode in which the torture takes place...but the fact remains that this argument still sees god torturing those who turned from his offer of grace for eternity. the only difference is that the fire is simply a picture of something so far beyond our experience that we can't grasp it. great! so, in essence, we are talking about something so awful that the closest thing on earth we have to understand it is the image of being burned alive for eternity!

it might, very well, be worse.

anything to say on the topic dr. crockett?

"When it comes to the afterlife, only the dead know for sure."

great. thanks.

so, here is where we stand:

there are strong arguments to support the traditional view of hell as something constructed from images in our world to help us understand better and not literal teachings about the nature and appearance of hell

it is entirely possible that the world they are describing is vastly worse than anything we can imagine

god is sadistic and will torture people forever in some mysterious way that is worse than any conceivable system existant on earth today

i have not been this sad and confused since the end of the empire strikes back

han is frozen

luke is vader's son [and down one hand]

lando is a traitor

the rebellion's hope is fading fast

it is not fair to be left in the lurch like this

so, perhaps, we need to spend some time trying to define hell a little closer in ways that are both biblical and honest. not an easy task, to say the least. so let us roll up our sleeves and get down to business...

good thing we still have a couple more weeks in hell!

a response to H--E--Double Hockey Sticks

2008-04-16T13:32:00.000-07:00

this is a quote from one of our members. really good stuff from one of our deep thinkers:

A couple things.

First... do you think Americans use the "double hockey sticks" expression?

Second, what I really got out of Wednesday night is the idea of eternal damnation. It's true that many people eagerly accept the idea of a timeless paradise, reaching on across the span of eternity in a rosy, glowing hue. Eternal damnation however, doesn't get the same treatment.What is it about 'eternity' that we don't accept? As humans, I think we have a hard enough time looking forward a generation - not to mention FOREVER.

I think most people think in terms of their lifespan: 'til death do us part, or 'until my last breath'. When we think of being happy for eternity, we assume that time passes in a way that we cannot grasp. Eternity is simply a moment that goes on forever. When you think in those terms, it's easier to understand the idea of eternal damnation. Stuck in the moment of rejection of God... forever. It's the fact that it's our choice that seems to scare people. Go towards the light, right? Does suspicion of God's omnipotence translate into rejection? Will we screw it up?

More next time, when I've warmed up with popcorn and Rowan Atkinson.

H---E---Double Hockey Sticks

2008-04-10T13:06:00.001-07:00

so, the first week in hell is over! not too bad eh?

last night a large group of us gathered to begin our new series: 4 weeks in hell.

the topic was whether or not we believe in a hell that is a pit of fire where sinners and the lost spend eternity slow roasting for all their sins.

if you have spent any time at all talking to thoughtful people concerned with matters of the faith the topic of hell will most likely come to the surface at some point. the questions usually go something like this:

how can a loving god send people to burn for eternity?

isn't it arrogant to think that only christians are the only ones who won't burn?

i am a good person, why should i spend all eternity burning? i never hurt anyone, i'm no murderer! i love my family and friends...that hardly sounds fair!

most of the people at immersion last night admitted that those are fairly compelling reasons to avoid the whole topic all together.

however, we cannot truly avoid it because it is in the bible. and let us not forget that jesus does spend quite a bit of time talking about it.

so, what is the thoughtful and compassionate believer to do?

well, come to immersion for starters!! [we kid...is funny, no?]

we read and talk about it in a community interested in discovering the truth.

so, last night we read john f. walvoord's defense of the literal interpretation of hell as a place of fire & the eternality of the suffering of the dammed.

here are some segments from his article:

"If one accepts the authority of Scripture as being inerrant and accurate, it is clear that Christ taught the doctrine of everlasting punishment."

"While on the one hand [God] bestows infinite grace on those who trust him, he must, on the other hand, inflict eternal punishment on those who spurn his grace."

"Eternal punishment is an unrelenting doctrine that faces every human being as the alternative to grace and salvation in Jesus Christ. As such, it is a spur to preaching the gospel, to witnessing for Christ, to praying for the unsaved, and to showing compassion on those who need to be snatched as brands from the burning."

while these are only segments they do communicate the basic thrust of dr. walvoord's argument.

this, needless to say, made many people in the community uncomfortable and somewhat upset. but who are we to judge the ways of god? if god deems eternal punishment necessary can we, as mere mortals, really object?

after all walvoord puts scripture after scripture in his essay to compliment and support his argument. some examples from last night [click on the verses to read them]:

isaiah 33:12-14; isaiah 66:22-24; matthew 5:21-30; matthew 13:24-30; matthew 25:14-46

so, what do we do with this?

well, as we looked further into the various texts we began to notice that while some verses talked about hell being full of fire others talked about it being a place of darkness. some mentioned there were worms there that would never stop eating people yet those people were being burned too. how are these opposite images to be reconciled?

we talked about gehenna and jesus' use of that word in the new testament. gehenna was a place where garbage was burned on the outside of the city and jesus uses this place to help explain the netherworld to his disciples.

we began to see that although there are numerous pictures in the bible about hell being a place of fire the traditional view may not be as clear cut as we first thought.

clark pinnock wrote a rebuttal to walvoord [the two are friends, well, until walvoord passed away] and he wrote the following:

"[Walvoord] actually asks us to believe that the God who wills the salvation of the world plans to torture people endlessly in physical fire if they decline his offer of salvation...Who would want to accept salvation from a God like that? Has Walvoord visited the burn unit in his local hospital recently? Is he not conscious of the sadism he is attributing to God's actions? [this view of God] makes him out to be morally worse than Hitler."

although this excerpt is more personal than theological [although theologians who use personal experience in their work do tend to be more convincing] the arguments pinnock puts forth are convincing.

the scriptures quoted by walvoord often appear to uphold his argument on the surface. but only a slightly deeper look begins to show cracks in the armour. many of the passages quoted are metaphorical [and some even poetic] in nature are do not appear to have been designed to be interepreted literally. others are stories.

an example is the use of jesus' parable of the rich man and lazarus in luke 16 when the rich man goes to hell and asks laarus-who is in heaven-for some water to cool him in the flames. walvoord uses this as proof of hell's fiery reality. however, hell is not what this tale is about. it looks to have been a popular morality lesson circulating in the day when jesus walked the earth. jesus uses the story to illustrate his point, which is summed up at the end of the lesson:

He answered, 'Then I beg you, father, send Lazarus to my father's house, 28for I have five brothers. Let him warn them, so that they will not also come to this place of torment.'
"Abraham replied, 'They have Moses and the Prophets; let them listen to them.'
" 'No, father Abraham,' he said, 'but if someone from the dead goes to them, they will repent.'
"He said to him, 'If they do not listen to Moses and the Prophets, they will not be convinced even if someone rises from the dead.' "

the point of this story is not that hell is full of fire but that the law and the prophets all point to the divinity of jesus. that those who refuse to believe will never believe...even if a man should come back from the dead! this story was told to the readers so that they would understand better how so many could reject christ! to use this tale to defend the traditional view of hell misses the point entirely [after all, why does lazarus go to heaven? there is no mention that he was a believer or any mention about his piety or faithfulness at all...because this is not about the afterlife but is a clever story about the actions of people in this life!]

this is only part 1 so we will leave it at this: the idea of hell as a pit of fire burning forever is not as easy to prove as some would lead us to believe. the words sheol, gehenna, tartaros, hades which are all, at one point or another, translated as hell in the english bible have varied [and sometime contradictory] meanings. it appears that the traditional pit of fire depictions of hell are not necessarily the most biblical...even though the proponents for this position argue that they are! therefore, we are forced to resign ourselves to the fact that we do not have an answer yet, but we seem to be getting closer.

good thing we have 3 more weeks in hell.

judas...betrayer or betrayed?

2008-03-21T20:13:00.000-07:00

did the christian church sell out judas and give him the undeserved reputation of a monster?

did jesus go to the cross because judas betrayed him or because jesus told him to betray him?

what does the gospel of judas have to say about this?

dr. gordon heath lead a packed immersion through such questions. we talked about the conflict within the scholarly world about whether or not the gospel of judas even portrays judas in the positive light that the national geographic special claims it does. we talked about the difference between gnosticism and christianity and how some claim that christianity simply was the 'lucky winner' of the debate and that is why it is more popular than gnosticism.

dr heath talked about the beliefs held by some of this ancient sect and how it would impact our learning of god. we learned that were we to accept the teachings of the ancient gnostics we would throw out the idea of the trinity, the old testament, jesus' death on the cross, the resurrection and, effectively, everything we attach to the work of salvation accomplished by jesus. we could no longer see yahweh [ our god] as powerful and the 'real' god would never interact with us because matter [what we see, touch, smell etc.] is evil and too far removed from the spirit of god. our incarnate god would never contaminate himself by engaging with sinful humanity. god would be untouchable.

it was a powerful night full of discussion, debate and learning. next week gord concludes his two-week stay with us and we are going to dedicate more time to discussion because people did not want to leave but wanted to keep on talking [or listening]. hey, immersion is nothing if not community run so we look forward to even more engagement in the upcoming service.

c'mon out if you've got the time!

reflection

2008-03-15T14:26:00.000-07:00

here is the first of a couple of vids that we are going start putting up of our services.

the new 7 deadly sins

2008-03-13T08:13:00.000-07:00

an intersting article just appeared about the vatican talking about new deadly sins for this day and age.

see the article here

among them are genetic intervention, drug abuse, and environmental concerns.

this is an interesting development within Catholic theology and begs the question about whether or not 'sin' changes from age to age.

a while ago the vatican came up with a kind-of 10 commandments for driving [opposing drunk, driving, road rage and even inconsiderate driving] and this is in keeping with this move within the Catholic hierarchy to maintain christian teaching in the post modern world [some of the vatican is even going to solar power!]

the church is continuing to cry against the mistreatment of the poor by societal systems which keep the rich getting richer and the poor getting poorer.

all in all an interesting article worth the read and a potential future iMMERSION topic.

stations of salvation

2008-03-11T10:14:00.000-07:00

the cross is always seen as the central message of the christian faith

in fact, the cross is one of the most recognized symbols in the world [the golden arches of mcdonalds are more recognizable]

but did the notion of jesus dying on a cross come out of nowhere? was this a last minute audible called by god the quarterback? or, was the cross the culmination of the story of salvation that god had been calling since the beginning?

at this time of year the stations of the cross are quite popular with our catholic brothers and sisters and we want to partake in this worship service but add another element to it as well. we are going to, quite literally, spend some time walking through some of the old testament to see god's plan of salvation for the world in action even before the time of jesus.

there will be music, movie clips, discussion and time to explore the past in a new light.

your comments will be appreciated both on the evening and afterwards for posting.

let us take time to truly reflect and celebrate this special time of year as we see that god's plans have existed for centuries and continue to live on in this day and age.

are families too busy?

2008-02-29T12:06:00.000-08:00

the answer? yes.

so, how do we fix that? aaaaa, therein lies the rub.

andrea speers led us in a dialogue to help us sort out these situations in our own lives. here are some of the points that came from the talk:

in this day and age where roles are up for grabs, daytimers and pda's are the norm and the family dinner is a relic from days of yore the question still remains how we stay a family and not just a group of roommates who barely see each other.

obviously, there is no easy answer to this but one of the keys appears to be open and honest communication. gathering together, if not for dinner every night, at least once a week for a family meeting. the topics don't have to be heavy. one meeting can be spent planning a fun family event that everyone can be involved in...both the actual event and the planning of it.

the idea of a nuclear family with the dad, mom and their 2.1 kids is a fairy tale for most these days. single parents, same-sex parents, re-marriages all bring their own sense of identity and their own set of problems that need to be sorted through.

a large part of the problem in this part of the world is that we are very 'achievement focused' and the art of relaxation has been lost. being exhausted is a badge of honour instead of a warning sign! there needs to be respect for taking some time off, or taking some down time, or just taking time to be alone and to be together.

families can be busy places and many people just run from one place to another. whether it is soccer...ballet...music lessons...homework...school play....more homework...quick meal in the car...tutoring...whatever. it can feel like too much a lot of the time.

there is no one answer, but the dialogue and the awareness of this issue is a promising step in the right direction. andrea gave us some helpful hints and her website [under our family counsellor on the side or here] has even more, but the key is that we need to realize that doing everything and always being busy for the sake of our families will mean very little if we never see our families!

remember, god exists as a trinity and that three-in-one kind of thing is more than just some weird way christians try to understand god; it gives us some insight into the topic at hand.

after all, god IS a family. god is in relation. jesus said he did nothing except follow the father. the holy spirit does nothing but point people to god. they/he/she/god communicates and shows us that if we are created in the image of god then part of that means that we are created to be in community...to be in family.

i wonder what god talks about at god's family meetings?

NOTE: big stuff is coming to iMMERSION!

dr. gordon heath will be with us on mar 19 and 26 to talk about the gospel of judas. dr. heath has written a book [avail. at chapters] on this topic and will be sharing with us some wonderful insights and answering questions about this controversial topic. mark the dates in your calendars and join us for an informative and powerful evening.

an inconvenient faith: has environmentalism become the new religion?

2008-02-25T19:51:00.000-08:00

underneath a lunar exclipse we gathered to watch some of the al gore-ical film an inconvenient truth and talk about whether or not the concern for the environment has usurped the nature of the christian message.

the arguments made included:

if we don't have an earth, where are we going to spread our message?
perhaps god put us in the garden of eden to take care of the land

can taking care of the land be part of our destiny?

all good points but is not the deeper issue where are we supposed to put our focus while we are on this planet? after all, if we spend time talking about the planet and resources and recycling are we neglecting the true purpose to teach the message of christ?

some in the church believe that we are called to focus our time and talents purely on spreading the gospel and that all other things act as merely distractions. now, the intent of this way of thinking is not purely off although, it can be argued, it is somewhat extreme.

christians are called to act as god's ambassadors on earth [see II corinthians 5] but the idea of what constitutes the message of christ tends to be somewhat narrow in those with the aforementioned opinion.

after all, did christ not talk about a new heaven AND a new earth?

did christ not honour this world simply by existing in it?

does the book of genesis not record that god saw creation and, more importantly, that it was good?

true, many pseudo-gospels threaten to usurp the salvation offered by the sacrifice of christ on the cross but the care of this world does not have to be one of them. the lord is all about recreation not destruction and calls all His children to respect the art that He has created. just as we are called not to destroy our fellow humans it can be argued that the gospel message includes not destroying the planet god gave us not because we are trying to be hip or cool, but because all things that bear the fingerprint of the One we are following.

listen, the message of christ is life-transforming and, if allowed, will bleed into all aspects of a person's life. we begin to see salvation as more than just a message about who goes to heaven and see that it is about bringing heaven to earth. it is not an either-or situation. we are not called to choose between spreading the gospel or taking care of the planet. however, as we follow god we begin to see that they are both part of the same mission: recreation.

one of the main characteristics of immersion is something we call edenism. edenism is about seeing the planet as something other than our own personal playground. hedonism has brought us to this place but edenism seeks to view the restoration and maintenance of the planet in a spiritual light. we are called to work the land just as much now as adam and eve first were in the garden of eden...it is part of our mandate as followers of god.

hopefully, we will take the call of environmentalism seriously not beacuse it is the trendy thing to do right now [although it can be argued that it is not trendy but necessary!] but because it has always been part of the christian's role on earth. we love this planet because god made it and god's artwork is always something to be cared for and held in reverence.

next time we are tempted to throw a can on the street or leave our cars running or any of the other assorted things we now know harm our planet let us remember that god may have created this world for us but that does not mean it was created for us to abuse.

are families too busy?

2008-02-19T20:26:00.000-08:00

there will be some posts tomorrow once this week's immersion has happened but we wanted to get the word out that family counsellor and all-around parenting expert [she hates it when we say stuff like this] andrea speers will be leading next week's immersion service.

she has fantastic ideas and you can read the praises in the 'next week' column but we wanted to make a special mention of the fact and remind all you people out there to clear up some time in your schedule and invite some other people to an immersion...this will be a very useful one!

knock, knock. who's there? my faith. my faith who? my faith ith thtuck in your door!

2008-02-14T08:06:00.000-08:00

lame joke in the title? absolutely.

offensive to god? doubtful.

offensive to humour? yes.

last night we gathered to see whether or not god has a sense of humour.

we looked at some [actual] products found on line. the picture is of He'Brews Jewish Beer. don't believe it is real? check out their website

we also looked at a frying pan which burns the face of jesus into your pancakes or grilled cheese sandwich, pet baptism kits, hot air balloon jesus and a lanyard for your iPod shuffle that is in the shape of a cross. we discussed whether or not these items were funny or offensive. all of them fell into the funny category.

however, the websites that dealt with the rapture [actually, the site was about investing in stocks during the 7 years when the anti-christ is on earth to make the most money...there is waaaaaay too much there to explain right now but we all agreed a study about the end of the world would make an interesting future immersion service] or sending messages to dead relatives through people in paliative care or the other more intolerant sites were put into the offensive/blasphemous category. these sites were seen as destructive and communicative of an unhealthy and violent ideology. the basic consensus was that there is nothing funny about taking advantage of people who are grieving the loss of a loved one or manipulating a certain idea about the end times to make financial gain.

but it was the video that inspired the most passionate discussion [see video bar for the video]. this youtube vid was full of images and we watched and then wrote which ones we reacted the strongest towards.

please watch the video and do the same.

many people were deeply offended about the woman in the stain-glassed window, or the cross with the word 'ikea' written on it, or the ones mocking pope john paul II's declining health in his final days, or the pictures depicting jesus as a drug user.

we asked why these things were offensive and the main idea was that there is no longer anything sacred anymore. there seems to be a noticable disrespect for religion and a desire to profane what used to be considered holy. conversation turned to stores and bars being open on sundays and how the church is a target for hateful remarks.

but we also talked about this type of thing being a vehicle for honest dialogue. if we can get past the feelings of repulsion or anger we may be able to find someone who is lashing out because of an incident in their past when they were let down, or hurt, by the church. and that is the kind of person we want to show understanding and compassion towards. people expect a negative reaction from 'church types' when they post such images. what a wonderful opportunity to pleasantly surprise them!

what about those who post images and mock the church just because, and are just being malicious for, no good reason or because it is the popular thing to do? well, it is probably best just to avoid the situation and hope that they mature enough down the road and will become willing to engage in an intelligent discussion on the subject. or, at the very least, realize that mocking another person's beliefs-no matter how silly they may seem-is never a good course of action.

but the point that must be concluded on is this: god does have a sense of humour. it is important to see that god delights in people. it is important to see the distinction between failing at an honest attempt to please god and just mocking god. as thomas merton says: "i believe even the desire to please god pleases god."

god is a god who laughs as well as cries. god is not vengeful and waiting to smite us because we tell jokes about the faith. it is important for christians-and people of faith-to look at themselves and laugh at what is funny...we do a lot of ridiculous things in this pursurit of the Divine and it can only help to be able to honestly laugh at ourselves! plus, it probably will help us rid ourselves of the whole vengeful and grumpy god image that can haunt us and our spiritual walk.

after all, if god doesn't have a sense of humour we are all pretty much up the mighty brown creek sans paddle!

and seriously, if god doesn't have a sens of humour who can explain the platypus and teenagers?

ps: for a great website that has some hilarious church culture items check out www.shipoffools.com

o, the weather outside was frightful...

2008-02-12T07:23:00.000-08:00

...but the worship was so delighful.

sorry for the late update, only the day before the next service, but we somewhat beholden to technology and it appears that our trusty computer is in the process of shuffling off the mortal coil! so, we have been scrambling to get a new computer to do this sort of thing as well as help with the actual immersion service.

so, enough excuses...here's what we talked about in last week's blizzard.

huddled close to each other to stay warm we continued to talk about how the bible is to be used for our daily lives. people last week were deeply offended by some of the passages that were selected [notably the ones pertaining to women remaining silent in church] and were baffled with the rules telling people not to wear clothes with two different types of material woven together.

so, how do we separate what we use from what we discard?

one of our people wrote in with the idea that we have to be careful when we use the bible literally because we run the risk of making it say something, or do something, that was never intended by the authors of the book. she spoke about myth and how stories can be used to convey deeper truths for the readers. she then added that she did not believe that the bible is untrue in any way, just that it uses literal devices to communicate deep truths to its readers. but she is also concerned that people will the dismiss any part of the scriptures that he or she may not agree with and this is just as foolosh/dangerous. the bible is not our play thing and the ultimate goal of interpreting it is not that we clarify it but that it clarifies us.

another course of argument was that the morality of the bible was okay for that time period but should be reviewed through today's lens. there was some disagreement here. one person thought that stealing to feed one's family was okay but, according to the old testament, that person should be killed. the argument was made that stealing to feed one's family is acceptable. that was countered by a soft spoken woman who thought that if we didn't steal then we opened up the door for others to help. be it aid agencies or just friendly neighbours she thought that we need to trust more in god and let him take care of us.

as you can tell there were so many points and some held that the bible is translated differently in a post-resurrection world. this brought up the question whether or not that excluded jewish people from accurate interpretation of the bible since they did not believe in jesus' divinity.

so, to wrap up, i hope this is a jarbled and passionate in the post as it was on the evening of..for many perspectives were shared and many viewpoints were explored.

at the end...well, we're not at the end and even though we are talking about god's sense of humour this week it will not be suprising to see some more of this topic sneak in.

by the way: we decided to interpret the bible through the lens of jesus...in other words: we treat women the way jesus did, we eat and live life the way jesus did [at least we try] and we understand that jesus came to show us that the faith, the bible, and everything we do, is fundamentally about a relationship with god. instead of worrying about rules and regulations we are to be concerned with people and the marginalized and look for god among them.

however, it is probably best to leave this post open for now...because the topic is still something we are struggling with so please come and join in the struggle!

breakfast for supper and helping out

2008-02-05T07:20:00.000-08:00

well, we've got a busy week

as lent starts we want to insure that we celebrate this important part of the christian calendar.

that is why, tonight, where immersion is held there will be a pancake supper for any and all people interested

there is no charge for the meal but there will be info about the stephen lewis foundation [view their site here] as well as the chance to make a voluntary donation.

so, let's recap:

1] pancakes for supper=awesome

2] learning about stephen lewis foundation=awesome

3] info about upcoming benefit concert=awesome

4] chance to help contribute to stephen lewis' work in africa=awesome

looks like a night filled with numerous awesome opportunities!

hope to see you there.

check out the video bar

2008-01-31T12:25:00.000-08:00

in the vid section there is a classic stand-up routine that we watched last night.

it feat. ricky gervais [brilliant brit comedian] talking about creation and reminding us that we should have a sense of humour about the discussion at hand: how literally should we read the bible?

warning: there is some cursing in this clip [yes, we listened to swearing last night...aren't you sorry you missed out now?]

there will be another posting later on but we are going to wait until some emails come in discussing last night's issue. since we ran out of time and the talks were still going [and building] we are going to do a part 2 this wed night but also keep the discussion going during the week.

thanks for some good/interesting/controversial points last night

walk on

2008-01-18T11:46:00.001-08:00

there is a video of the last immersion which will be posted soon so stay tuned.

in essence the video will show a large group of people walking, talking and doing an assortment of different things like drawing, dropping walks into water, praying, lighting candles, looking at themselves in the mirror and even playing with a compass and magnets.

our first labyrinth service was designed to shine a light on the idea of walking with god. we talk about it but what does it mean? in the greek mindset [which we largely inherited] the soul and the body are separate entities. thus we believe that the body dies but the soul lives on. but jesus never said that, he talked about the resurrection of the body. interesting.

we approached this event with an understanding [hopefully] that what happens in the body also happens in the soul. thus, as we walked physically around the labyrinth, or to each station, or to get coffee, we held to the idea that the soul was doing likewise. in the physical realm immersion simply looked like a group of people wandering about and talking quietly to each other. in the spiritual realm there were numerous souls taking time to walk to god. powerful, simple, profound.

thus, we [hopefully] discovered that any action we take at any time can be used as worship. as we walk to class, work, the store, to get the remote, whatever can be an act of worship. what would our day look like if we sporadically offered the next ten steps to god? what if we said:

'lord, until i reach that room i am going to take every step as if i were literally walking to You.'

how would our days change? what would we see/feel/think/notice?

that is the power of the journey, that is the call of the pilgrimage. we do not have to go to jerusalem or to the local church [although both are a good idea] we simply have to get up, look to god, and take a step.

and before we know it we're walking.

what can we say?

2008-01-10T09:03:00.000-08:00

speechless. that is one way to describe the power of last night's service.

gathered together, lit only by candles and only the sound of one piano and our voices the community brought praises to the throne room of god.

we sang, we sat in silence, we watched candlelight, we brought our struggles to the foot of the cross, we lit candles, we heard scripture, we explored who this person jesus was but more importantly, throught the silence and the music and the symbols we invited the risen jesus to touch us in our hearts.

those who spoke about it spoke of a feeling of peace, a feeling of happiness, a feeling of refreshment.

through songs that repeated phrases over and over again like:

"jesus, remember me when you come into your kingdom"

"look to god, do not be afraid, lift up your voice"

we attempted to make these words take on a new meaning in our lives. the tunes were simple and the songs repetitive but they foreced us to look at these phrases and make them our own, personal prayers.

crying out to jesus to "hear us when we pray" as we lay our burdens at the foot of the cross and watching videos that taught us that worship is not about a dress code but about a relationship with the creator of the universe [see top video in video bar] and that god not only loves us but likes us too [a powerful distinction] were designed to touch our spirits and immerse them in the love and peace of god.

immersion has built a reputation for being a forum of discussion and dialogue about the faith as well as a creative place for art and music to be used to explore the character of god and what that means to us in daily life. however, this 3-part series re-discovering some ancient worship traditions has been rewarding as we gave over our own agendas and surrendered to the movement of the spirit of god. it felt good to just let go and seek the presence of the Divine.

next week we'll complete the series with an evening dedicated to the spiritual journey of the soul...it is called 'walking' and promises to be a powerful conclusion.

and the WORD was God...

2008-01-07T07:35:00.000-08:00

we spent the past evening deep in the study of the word: word.

through monastic music we explored several bible passages. we watched bono sing and speak about the mission of jesus and the year of jubilee (see vids section).

we wrote down words that came to mind when the word "god" was said

we watched scripture verses appear on the screen and we wrote down key phrases that stuck out for us.

we closed our eyes, listened to the story of jesus healing the widow of nain's son three times and pictured ourselves in the story to see what we could learn and where the story moved us.

we discussed all these aspects and just took an hour to calm our hectic lives down.

so many woderful things happened and there were so many new people and there are just too many things to write so we will simply record that the chance to stop and meditate on the word of god in so many ways was incredibly popular. so popular, in fact, that we are going to repeat the process all over again in a couple of weeks with different passages and ideas.

this wednesday we are going to spend the time reflecting musically through our version of a taize service. we hope that you can join us as we explore the role of jesus in our lives through song and imagery and silence.

should be another memorable night.

god can be found...even in times square

2007-12-20T07:37:00.001-08:00

well, last night was a total success!

a packed house sat and listened to our own jeremiah witt as he showcased his photography and spoke about the various places that he sees god's handprint.

for years he has been taking pictures of various items and for the past few months he has been taking pictures of things specifically for this event.

however, the power from the night came from the raw honesty and willingness to explore and find god in surprising places that truly impacted the immersion community.

we were shown god in a twisted tree, in rivers, in lakes, in mountains and even in the power of geysers, we saw god in the lone, golden leaf standing out in a snow-covered field. we saw caves as god's 'workshop' where the sense of humour of the Almighty can be exercised. we were shown a bible and told that god is in there. not just because of the words or the book itself but also because it began it's journey as a living tree...the living word come from the living world.

but, where some of us feel we learned something was that jera showed us that god can be seen in things made by people too. from the olympic tower in montreal to the front of our own building, we were shown that a building can show the spiritual journeys of architect to architecture to artisan and artist...each one guided by the creative hand of the creator.

we were shown that god can even be in those places that are out-and-out considered unholy. times square has rarely been seen as a hub of godliness but jera countered that by saying that millions of people have walked through this famous [and infamous] part of new york and if god is with them then god is there. god is no prude...god is a saviour and a saviour goes where the people who need saving are!

in relationships we see god's love and desire for us to enjoy community and to know that we are not alone in this world. friends pick us up and comfort and console us and, in doing that, enact the mandate that we are called to love one another and do unto them what we would have them do unto us.

where have we heard that before?

afterwards people thought that what was powerful was the idea that these pictures communicated: anything can be beautiful when looked at through the eyes of god. one does not have to be wearing a tuxedo or evening gown to be beautiful...the truly beautiful person is the one who possesses inner beauty and character regardless of what adorns their outer person.

the message of the gospel is that god is not a judge of the exterior....but the truest judge of the heart

we listened to christmas carols with rock n' roll beats and some funkier songs that sang of the christmas message of a god who loves us all so much that he went to unimaginable lengths to bring wayward humans back into the fold. it is good to see god in the little and surprising things in everyday life...but it is also good to see god in the extraordinary and miraculous. for our god, this god jehovah....yahweh...elohim...this god, yeshua....jesus is a god of true power and true grace and true compassion and true humility and when we start to see this god every day we can start to become more like this god everyday and in every way.

what a wonderful service to send us all into the christmas season

thanks jera

and merry christmas to all!!

where i see god....through the medium of photography

2007-12-18T08:57:00.001-08:00

our very own jera (beloved by all) has been snapping pics and will be sharing with us tomorrow night about where he sees god in everyday life.

this is such a valuable chance for our community to be blessed by the spiritual journey of another.

it is also a chance for each one of us to find a voice and a way to communicate the way we talk to & see god in order to bless others

we are called to follow god and part of that journey means revealing what we are seeing to others...kind of like a tour-guide for the divine.

if there are others in our community who want the chance to use their gifts/passions to communicate god and bring praise to the One from whom we receive those gifts and comfort to our fellow-journeyers please start brainstorming and immersion would love to facilitate such an experience.

looking forward to seeing part of jera's journey....looking forward to seeing how it impacts the journeys of others as well.

shalom.

edenism: we're watching garbage!

2007-12-11T07:56:00.000-08:00

we're going to the screening of the film garbage at the immersion theatre house

either meet at walt's house at 7pm

meet at our theatre house for the 730 show

this event is FREE

[click here for directions to the theatre house]

read up on the side what the film is about

it is a perfect addition to our ongoing edenism series where we discuss the spiritual ramifications of environmental issues.

PLEASE join us...if you have any questions email jamie at jamieatwalton@yahoo.ca

thanks...see you tomorrow as we watch 'garbage'

seder meal

2007-12-07T09:50:00.001-08:00

last night's meal was a success. many of us gathered around a large table and said prayers together and followed a format similar to the Jewish Seder meal.

the great thing about many Jewish pasttimes is that they are so deliberate and intentional in showing how every action we make during something like a meal can have spiritual significance. we eat bitter herbs to show us the bitterness of the yolk of slavery experienced in Egypt. it also doubles to show us the bitterness of a life lived in sin and far from God.

we dip green herb in salt water and taste the tears and sadness of a life lived in bondage. we light candles and turn on lights to remove the darkness and, in so doing, enact the Light of the World entering into our communal and personal darkness[es].

we say prayers together, each of us taking a turn at leading, to show the priesthood of all believers. then, in the middle we sit down to eat a filling meal and talk about Jesus' attitude towards Gentiles.

we looked at Mark 7:24-30 the story of the Gentile woman who asked Jesus to heal her daughter. Jesus then calls her a dog and tells her that dogs are not deserving of food set aside for the children. she replies that even dogs get scraps that fall from the children's table. Jesus seems impressed and tells her that her daughter is healed.

this story causes some discomfort because it does not appear to be the usual, kind Jesus that is more than willing to heal anyone who comes, he seems rude and dismissive. but the core issue here is in the mission of christ.

jesus was jewish, was a jewish messiah and came to the jewish people.

a gentile had no place in that salvation story. and Jesus says as much.

but then something wonderful happens: the gentile woman gets it!

Jesus has been telling all the Jewish people parable after parable and few seem to get what he is driving at. however, this woman, this pagan, gets what Jesus means and incorporates Jesus' image into her rebuttal.

she knows that she is not a child of God's chosen nation and she accepts Jesus' description of her scenario. and in that humility this woman showed what it meant to be a true follower, she showed true faith, she showed the true character of a child of God. she accepted that even a dog in this man's house was better than being a king anywhere else. she was desperate to see her daughter better and took everything Jesus sent her way...even an insult.

therein lies the power behind Jesus' response to her: he acknowledged her humility and rewarded her.

it is important not to try to wash away the offensive elements of this story because they teach us something about the character of Jesus and how we can approach him.

we are given the delightful ability to walk into the very throne room of God and petition the Almighty with whatever we have on our minds, whether trivial or important. the key to the character of the true follower is in the state of humility with which we approach. do we come in arrogance assuming that God must answer our demands or do we come in humility begging God and accepting whatever we receive?

in other words: are we willing to be dogs in God's house or would we rather be kings in our own?

it is not that God considers us dogs but it is important to realize that the Gentile believers came to the fold later on...were adopted in as it were. we are very much part of God's salvation story now and for that we should be humbled and grateful. but we must never forget that the story came to us from our Jewish brothers and sisters and we cannot understand Jesus unless we understand that he lived and taught as a Jewish man. after all, Jesus was not a christian!

the scandal of the message was that, just before the incident with the Gentile woman, Jesus taught that the Jewish cleansing rituals were not important because it is not what we eat that makes us impure but how we live and what we say. with that Jesus removed one of the great traditions that separated the Jews from the Gentiles. with this teaching Jesus showed that a Gentile could be on par with a Jew in the eyes of God because a Gentile was capable of doing good and a Jew was capable of evil, whether or not they washed their hands before eating became irrelevant.

then Jesus goes on to heal this woman to further prove his point. after all, this woman showed that it does not take a Jewish mind to understand the message of Jesus but, rather, a humble and contrite spirit. coming with nothing to offer and with no hope and a profound understanding that she did not deserve Jesus' favour ending up being the very things that so touched Jesus about this woman and caused him to offer her daughter relief.

the arrogance and entitlement of the religious leaders continually put Jesus off and ultimately led to these conceited individuals crying out for the death of the One they claimed to serve!

so, at the close of the tale, let us christians not make the same mistake as the religious leaders of Jesus' day. let us not approach Jesus with arrogance or with the idea that just because we go to church, or sit on a committee, or attend Bible study that we somehow have earned God's favour. all those things aid us in finding out who God is but these things are all for naught if we lose our sense of reverence and humility.

if we come to God seeing ourselves as unworthy he promises to lift us up and show us just how loved we really are. for the dogs of heaven beat the rulers of earth every time!

seder meal pt II

2007-12-07T09:40:00.000-08:00

this post comes from an email between a couple of immersion people. while our discussion was great it barely scratched the surface of this topic. hopefully, this will help clear up some more questions so grab something to drink, get comfy and read away:

Okay, the history of the split comes later on and i think this is worth talking about. God moves where God moves and works with those who respond to his message. In Acts 10 we have Peter receiving a vision where God tells him to eat the animals that are considered unholy by the Jewish dietary laws. He tells God that he would never do that and God challenges him by saying that all things God has made are holy. Jesus would also challenge the Jewish dietary laws in the story right before the one we talked about last night. He told the religious leaders that it is not the food that enters into people that makes them unclean but the unholy words and deeds that come out of them. Once Jesus said that the great dietary divide that separated Jew from Gentile was abolished because it meant that any Jew could act in a way unpleasing to God and any Gentile could act in a way pleasing to God. According to Jesus, the things that made the Jewish people ethnically separate were not the same things that would get them into God's good graces.

So, back to Peter, after his vision he encounters some messengers from a Gentile Centurion named Cornelius who has sent for him because he is intrigued by this new Jewish sect called The Way (what Christianity was originally called).

Peter goes to the house of Cornelius and the entire household accepts Peter's proclamation of the Gospel (do yourself a favour and read it...it's really good) and the Holy Spirit falls on them like it did for the Jewish followers of Jesus on Pentecost.

Then Saul becomes Paul and begins to bring the message of Jesus to his fellow Jews who frequently refuse to hear or believe him. In fact, some even tried to kill him. However, Paul noticed that the Gentiles were receiving the message and asking what they could do to become part of the family. Paul seems to have grasped the grace of Jesus because he did not hesitate to include them in the saving plan of God. In fact, in Romans he even stated that he thought God was using the Gentiles to shame the Jews into realizing that the pagans were figuring God out faster than those who should know better.

He seemed to be convinced that sooner or later the Jewish people would
come around.

Some of the Jerusalem church followed after Paul and tried to convince the
Gentiles converts to The Way that, in order for the message of Christ to work
for them they needed to be circumcised and thus enter into the Covenant of
Abraham that separated the Jews for all others.

Paul was incensed and fought this thinking tooth and nail. He saw this as
compromising the message of Jesus and basically saying that the death of
God on a cross was not significant enough to bring all people into salvation...and it is there that we see the crux of the Jewish Gentile issue.

God always planned to save all people. But the way in which he does it is to get one person on board. That person was Abraham. From that one man a nation was born that would be blessed by God so that they could, in turn, bless the world. He even puts them in the land that was considered the crossways of the ancient world so that every other nation would pass through and hear the message of God. Instead, the Jewish people hoarded the message and used their status to make themselves feel superior.

Thus, when Jesus came he was doing the same thing. He spoke and acted in the ways of the Jewish prophets and referred to the Torah for all his teaching. He showed himself to be the Messiah spoken about by the prophets; although eh was not the kind of Messiah the Jews thought he should be. Sadly, because of preconceived notions of what the messiah should be many Jews missed what he was saying but the dirty pagans seemed to get it (well, some of them anyway). It is a profoundly humbling message to all of us today. WE do not tell God where to go, He shows us what he is doing and invites us to follow, if we continue to refuse we lose out on what he is doing.

By the Gospel of John (A.D. 90ish) there is a noticeable gap between the Jewish community and the increasingly Gentile community of The Way (by then they had adopted the name Christian which was actually an insult leveled at them by people in Antioch...they basically said "Look at all those people trying to be little Christs...Christians!" and our forebears thought that sounded pretty good so here we are). Paul has already written to the churches that God is in the business of adoption and so the Gentile people, while not part of God's original chosen people, have been adopted in and are as much in God's family as anyone. Sadly, once the Christian community received power under Constantine (4th Century) they used their power to punish those they blamed for killing Jesus and the Jewish/Christian rift has grown ever since.

That is a Loooooooong message and it still does not capture anywhere near all the implications of what the Gentile acceptance of God's message means...in fact, that is what most of the New Testament talks about....the alteration...completion....interesting turn taken by God's salvation history.

tonight...excited

2007-12-05T06:57:00.001-08:00

so tonight should be pretty cool. we are going to gather for a meal...but not just any meal. a meal that is intentionally about getting to eat and worship as a group.

we are going to break bread in a manner similar to the way in which jesus used to...

pretty cool.

so, for those who read this ahead of time feel free to bring any contribution you want to the meal tonight...if not, that is cool too. there will be plenty for everyone!

check out a meal designed to feed both body and soul...tonight at immersion.

who cares about sunday morning?

2007-11-29T07:38:00.000-08:00

seriously, if you ever attend a church service or mass do you ever look around and wonder if this is at all what god had in mind?

we watched a short film from the nooma series last night titled: sunday. [you can check out a preview by going to the 'videos' section of this page]

in the film rob bell sits in a restaurant [presumably after church on any given sunday] as christians, fresh from church, come in and sit down for a post-worship meal.

he asks questions and challenges the religious structures of the day. he quotes the prophet isaiah and he quotes jesus to back up critiques of the 'going through the motions' kind of church experience. he compares an unhappy church-goer to a husband bringing home flowers for his wife because 'it is my duty' or 'because there was a sale and they were cheap' he comments that no wife would want flowers out of duty; she would rather receive them as an expression of love. god is the same: he does not want worship from people trying to assuage guilt or doing it just because that is what we are supposed to do. god wants people's hearts...nothing less, nothing more.

so, after the film we discussed.

many in our community are frustrated with the state of the church today. there is little room for spiritual creativity, and some even feel that the church gets in the way of those who are genuinely seeking after god. imagine that: the church as a hindrance, not a help, to the spritually hungry! can you think of anything that would anger god more?

many people argued that the reason why they continue to come to immersion week after week is that they enjoy the community and the ability to dialogue with other people about matters of the faith. they think it is important to learn what other people think and feel. they want to be challenged and not be spectators to their own faith journey being told what to think by 'experts.'

church is such a strange thing. we gather together to learn about a jewish peasant who lived 2000 years ago and how he died and came back to life and we think he is god. that is weird.

truly weird.

but if it is true then shouldn't a church that holds to the teachings as radical as turn the other cheek, walk the extra mile, forgive others, plead for the widow, defend the cause of the orphan, love the marginalized and forgotten members of society as if they were god in the flesh, treat each other with love, be so consumed by love that it becomes the defining trait of your community attract some attention?

should the church of jesus be in decline? i mean, look at the message that we have been given! it is like nothing else...it is otherworldly.

maybe that is the problem. maybe church has taken this message and made it suitable for mass consumption and maybe, just maybe, the church is now teaching the wrong thing. maybe, just maybe, we have become the religious leaders that jesus found so infuriating in his day.

maybe, just maybe, church needs to be re-tooled a bit. otherwise, if we are not preaching the gospel then why should anyone care about sunday morning, wednesday night, bible study or anything else to do with the faith?

can we get rid of christianity and just concentrate on being christian?

if you're interested...

2007-11-22T13:16:00.000-08:00

so i have been asked by st john's to come and be the guest speaker at their alternative service this saturday [the 24th].

these services are pretty cool with a lot of drama, rockin' tunes and a good message [well, until this year!]

it would be cool to look out and see some familiar faces in the church when i talk. if you can/want to come meet at walt's house at 7pm...then we'll head over. their service starts at 730.

thanks....jamie

who am i? who are we?

2007-11-22T13:01:00.000-08:00

the question of identity shapes our perception and our understanding of this world, our place in it and our relationship with god.

last night dallas shared with us the story of the nation of israel as they struggled with national identity and various crises of faith.

from abram's destined journey from ur to the overly-confident dream weaver joseph's trip to egypt to the wanderings of the people in the desert to the arrival in the promised land to the subsequent babylonian captivity to the return of the people of god to their land under the persian king, cyrus. all stages had their struggles and all parts contributed to the journey of israel's understanding of what it means to be the children of god.

dallas had us break into groups and talk about times when our own identity was shaken. here are some of the answers:

loss of job

media's influence over our body image

crisis of faith

death

illness

rumours

bullying

family dynamics

each one contributes to new questions about our identity. each one challenges the pre-conceived notions we have about ourselves. each one forces us to look at the box we put ourselves, and others, in and rebuild it.

as israel struggled with bondage and captivity and infidelity towards god and even whether or not to build a temple they were learning who god was [and is] as well as who they were called to be.

at the end of the night dallas held up the large poster board with all our situations and identity-influencing factors written on it, opened a can of paint, and covered them with a cross.

identity: it is not about those things, it is about seeing that god became flesh and blood and dwelt among us to show that we are not to build temples to god but we are to be temples to god.

identity: it is not about what others say about you but understanding what god has already said about you: 'while you were still screwed up and not even looking for god, in fact, while you were actively opposing him, god died for you so that you may come to know him. you did not choose him, he chose you.'

'nuff said? easier said than done!

thanks dallas for a good lesson that needed to be said.

David Suzuki Info

2007-11-06T10:16:00.000-08:00

For those of you who were at the park clean-up in October we were talking about getting in contact with the David Suzuki foundation in order to learn as much as possible about environmental issues (hedonism vs edenism)

anyhoo, our li'l environmentalist, teija, fired off this email as a point of reference so, if you have the time, take a quick boo at it!

http://www.davidsuzuki.org/

thanks teija

do only christians go to heaven? part II

2007-11-02T10:22:00.000-07:00

as children adorned themselves in costumes a gathering of people sang some songs, watched some videos and ate some candy together while discussing the fate of our eternal souls.

beth and iain led us in some beautiful music

there was a video about a man in a hole (see below)

we discussed john 14:6

"i am the way, the truth and the life, no one comes to the father except through me."

and asked...what does this mean? is jesus the only way to heaven? do you have to be a christian to go to heaven when you die?

well, that incited some interesting perspectives. people are not comfortable with the idea that something as simple as being a christian is the measuring stick of entrance into the pearly gates. it is hard to argue that saying a prayer and calling on a name can include you and exclude others. people argued that there are plenty of people out there who were not christian but who are great and noble people. what do we do with someone like ghandi? is ghandi in hell simply because he didn't use the name of jesus?

then the point was put forward that just because something makes us uncomfortable does not make it untrue. after all, god is not beholden to us, we are beholden to god.

we do not tell the bible what it says, it tells us. we do not interpret it, it interprets us. we do not clarify it, it clarifies us.

so, where are we left? who goes to heaven?

the problem i have always had with the whole idea that only christians go to heaven is simple: jesus was not a christian.

but we cannot throw this passage out, we cannot lose the theological baby in the bath water of our culture, so to speak. when we read this passage it points us to one and only one conclusion: jesus is the way to heaven...like it or lump it, that is what it says.

but is that the same as being a christian? i think not.

i think in order to be a follower you must be just that: a follower. we then read a story from c.s.lewis' chronicles of narnia the last battle. in this story a young soldier who has followed after another god and not aslan is confronted by the great and awesome lion. he falls to the ground knowing that his hour of death is at hand. still, he is thankful for being able to see the lion before he dies.

but aslan does not condemn the man for his service to another but affords him grace and welcomes him because the good service he had done could not be done to someone evil...evil and good are opposed. therefore, one cannot serve evil by doing good and one cannot serve good by doing evil.

christians can do the work of satan and still call themselves christian. when a christian kills an abortion doctor, or beats up (or discriminates against) a homosexual, or rejects a person based on religion it is quite possible that their 'christian duty' is actually service to the dark lord.

by that logic, can not a person who does not call on the name of jesus serve god? if a persons answers the call of the holy spirit deep within them can their service not be honourable to god, even if they do not know whom they serve (and it can be argued that none of us truly know)?

we left the conversation with this thought (it might seem like a bit of a cop out but i think it is a good place to start): we spend too much time worrying about who is 'in' when that was not the message of jesus. jesus came to this earth, and began his ministry, to show people not how to go to the kingdom of god but that the kingdom was present. what kind of a world would it be if we spent more time trying to bring the kingdom here instead of wondering about what will get us there?

so the answer to the question is simple: do only christians go to heaven? that's up to god.

but christians can also bring heaven here...that is much more profound.

we concluded by watching this video by author brian mclaren...hope you enjoy it. see ya next week.

do only christians go to heaven?

2007-10-30T13:30:00.001-07:00

this is the topic of this week's immersion

this is a disturbing question because it deals with a person's ultimate and eternal destiny.

this notion that some people are in and some are out does not sit well with many people and it will be interesting to see where people are at with this question.

so, tomorrow night there will be some music and a video but the lion's share of the evening will be dedicated to discussion.

after all, if we can't answer this then where do we sit?

just because something is uncomfortable does not mean that it is untrue so what do we do with this idea that there are some who are forever cursed or, at the very least, destined to miss out on the love god has for the human race? let's chat.

immersion...not for spiritual tourists

at the foot of the cross

2007-10-25T14:03:00.000-07:00

there is little to report about last night because the images stand for themselves.

i am kicking myself that we didn't have a camera there to capture the service because there were a lot of powerful things that happened last night.

we stationed various tables around walt's house with words like 'lust' 'rage' 'indulgence' 'waste' 'pride' and 'gossip' and people were invited to read over our definitions and then look at the art or display pieces present at each station. if something resonated with them they were invited to pick up a stone and carry it with them.

at the end of the stations (there were 13 total) people returned to the main room and we all sat in a half circle and talked. then we played the song fix you by coldplay and people reflected on what the stones symbolized. during the song, as people felt led, we placed the stones at the foot of a cross we had placed in the middle of the room, surrounded by candlelight.

the theology is simple: when we honestly journey with god we begin to become aware of the things in us that are not holy, that can be downright destructive and evil. we become aware of our deplorable condition.

and if the faith ended there it would be a terrible thing. but the point of the journey was one of self-awareness as we all had to pick up stones and admit that we were the bearers of these 'weights of transgression'

but the journey was not about self-awareness or shame. the journey was about the cross. the journey was about taking that step of self-awareness and seeing that, even though we may think we are doing okay, we are in desperate need of salvation.

last night's service was about an image. and the image was the weights that we carried (both literally and metaphorically) being laid down at the foot of the cross.

we entered into that service light...we became aware of our own heaviness...then we were invited to lay down those burdens at the foot of One who loves us so much that he gave his one and only Son that whoever believes will not perish but have everlasting life.

salvation begins with awareness of sin but, thank god, it ends with that sin losing all power over us.

next week we wrap up our discussion on conversion...join us.

conversion...what's the point?

2007-10-18T07:41:00.001-07:00

knock, knock

who's there?

annoying religious types interrupting your sleep to tell you about jesus.

annoying religious types interrupting your sleep to tell you about jesus, who?

annoying religious types interrupting your sleep to tell you about jesus, because that is how conversion is viewed by a lot of people!

a terrible joke...a disturbing truth.

at last night's immersion service we discussed what it means to be converted. some people had some positive things to say about it...others compared it to certain people who knock on the door and bother you with literature and pamphlets about their religion.

we talked about the biblical character of zacchaeus and his encounter with jesus. we talked about the great lengths this little, despised, and criminally wealthy man went in order just to see jesus pass by. he risked physical harm at the hands of the crowd, he risked humiliation as he climbed a tree to see the One he came to see.

we talked about how, after his encounter with the One who called him by name to come down from the tree and dine with him, he gave away half of what he owned and paid back 4 times what he took.

then we talked about the fact that jesus declared salvation to zacchaeus and his entire home.

why?

something happened in the little tax collector (latin: publicanus) that made him into a new person. he was converted from the crooked money-grubber into a generous and honest person. then jesus ends the story by saying that the son of man has come to find and restore the lost.

it is in the term "lost" that many people get ruffled.

when saying that some are lost and some are found we get the idea that some are in and some are out. some are messed and some are free and clear. that makes people angry.

so let's change what lost means. let's say that lost is not about being condemned but about being in the wrong place, on the wrong path, just some place that we don't need to be. everyone (i think) can relate to that. now, when zacchaeus was stealing from people and taxing them too much he showed that he had lost his way. after his encounter with jesus he had been found...adn salvation had come!

i think conversion is something we don't talk about too much in the ol' ucc but it is essential in order to understand the faith

after all, what is the point of learning all this stuff and going to church if not to become better people?

what is the point of becoming a better person if not to become a good person?

why stop at being good if we are not going to try to attain perfection?

what is the point of trying to be perfect if that is not something we can ever achieve?

and i think it is in these questions which help us see the need for conversion...

we are all, at one point or another, on the wrong path. we are all lost (not damned or even condemned) and in need of guidance. and that is where jesus comes in.

for the kind of conversion that god has in mind does not come from within but from on high. god loves you so much that he refuses to allow us to stay in our lost state...god has come to find and restore the lost. conversion is not about who is in and who is out...conversion is about being set free. like a prisoner getting released from jail, like a sick person at the end of an illness.

conversion. it is not about being made into something you are not, but about being born into something you were always supposed to be...but just forgot along the way.

this is the vid that we used to start the service.

goin' up to the spirit in the sky

2007-10-17T08:29:00.000-07:00

well, tonight is all about conversion and the deeper questions about who gets into heaven and why.
it should make for some interesting discussion and, no doubt, some differing views.
the question before all the faithful is: what does it mean to be a follower?

what does this faith journey entail?
what is it supposed to look like?
what is the point of being a follower?

hopefully we'll get some more answers tonight...or, at least, ask some good questions.

18 li'l monkeys came out to play....

2007-10-11T08:16:00.000-07:00

well, i must confess that i am impressed. through the rain and cold our community of park-cleaners was MUCH larger than i expected. i honestly thought that maybe 3 or 4 people would come and hang out but i was quite surprised when 16 other people joined melissa and i to clean up donovan bailey park last night.

the night was great...and wet...and cold and then there was the whole "dead frog" incident (some of our group toiled over whether or not to throw out the body of someone's deceased pet frog found in the field or if we should give the poor thing a proper burial....then we turned it over and noticed that this creature was apparently made in china...so i guess that settles it, god is chinese! we threw it out after that). we filled 3 bags with garbage-which was good because that park is actually quiet clean-and spent about an hour doing so.

at the end we took some time to reflect on the fact that environmental issues, when viewed with the idea that god has given this planet to us as a gift, are really spiritual issues.

teija shared with us that she is joining david suzuki's plan to help households to become more environmentally friendly and we look forward to getting more information about that.

afterwards we chatted for a while at tim hortons and then ended the night.

on the car ride home i commented to melissa how much better last night went than i expected and i must share with the whole community that i really think god is taking care, and honouring, this little experiment. we are seeing new faces joining us each week and the discussions are good, the music has been amazing and the spirit is rich and full. truly we have been blessed and i look forward to next week's talk about conversion and whether or not christians are the only people to get into heaven. should be interesting. check out the videos for a cool short film about creation and we'll chat again soon.

ps: oh yeah, and we even had our first "immersion north" team that were out last night cleaning in northern ontario as their way to stay connected with the group even though they were far away...very cool.

tonight, oct 10

2007-10-10T07:38:00.000-07:00

okay, so we are good to go for the 1st ever edenism park-clean-up challenge.
the weather is looking good tonight at about 12 degrees. there is a chance of rain so if it gets really bad we'll clean for a while and then head to the tim hortons for coffee and a chat.
hope to see you out there tonight.
7pm donovan bailey park...just look for the immersion sign

check out the video section for an interesting short film (about 8 minutes) called creation about, you guessed it, creation.

edenism

2007-10-05T15:04:00.000-07:00

he-don-ism
1.
the doctrine that pleasure or happiness is the highest good.
2.
devotion to pleasure as a way of life: The later Roman emperors were notorious for their hedonism.

e-den-ism
1.
reversal of the hedonistic ways of our society which have greatly threatend the health of our planet.
2.
a play on words [see pun] in that it is also an attempt to respect creation and struggle towards a time when the earth was more in balance, i.e. the garden of eden.

edenism is a philosophy/ideology that concentrates specifically on contrasting the aspects of our culture that are seen as detrimental to the health of our planet. within edenism littering, not recycling, using too much energy/water/non-renewable resources and letting one's car engine idle become spiritual issues.
caring for the garden god made for us is part of the mandate of the faithful and we are trying to take that mandate seriously.
that is edenism because, after all, life began in a garden.